Why Edward Snowden is not a Whistle-Blower

[peter grimes]

snip

You.

You're new here.

I like the way you write your posts.

And I'm not talking about the Easter Bunny losing the spring in his step this year, allegedly due to economic factors.

 

[Atticus]

Some of us want to abolish SS and Federal taxation as we know it.

I'm one of them...

Moderator Action: Let's not go there. Stay on the topic.

 

[peter grimes]

And now, yet more evidence that the NSA has been collecting information on US citizen's communications within the US. I don't quite remember which poster it was that was drawing an important distinction between snooping activities conducted against US citizens on US 'soil' and those conducted on US citizens not on US soil, but this pretty much eliminates that distinction:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/27/nsa-data-mining-authorised-obama

The internet metadata of the sort NSA collected for at least a decade details the accounts to which Americans sent emails and from which they received emails. It also details the internet protocol addresses (IP) used by people inside the United States when sending emails – information which can reflect their physical location. It did not include the content of emails.

From the text of the leaked document [not to be viewed by government employees without authorization!!]

Spoiler SECRET//COMINT//ORCON.NOFORN :

...the NSA may analyze communications metadata associated with United States persons believed to be in the United States.

 

[NewEnd]

Yeah, note that part up above where I said I was speaking hypothetically, as, not being American, I really don't care about the facts behind this case at all?

I think you missed my addendum.

Spoiler :

Corporations and people on gaming forums can not label you terrorist and throw you in jail or limit your travel options or suspend passports... government can.
Also, because you are not US citizen, it is worse. NSA can spy on non-US citizens and record and listen to them all they want. As all intelligence agents try to say to justify: "it may not be comfortable, but every nation engages in espionage!" Yes, and boundless informant means all people of world are suspect in American eyes... ..and have no rights. Germans unhappy about this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-907577.html
read, read in English for all you Americans.

from the article:
Overzealous data collectors in the US and Great Britain have no right to investigate German citizens. The German government must protect people from unauthorized access by foreign intelligence agencies, and it must act now. This is a matter of national security.

The totalitarianism of the security mindset protects itself with a sentence: If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. But firstly, that contains a presumption: We have not asked the NSA and GCHQ to "protect" us. And secondly, the sentence is a stupid one: Because we all have something to hide, whether it pertains to our private lives or to our business secrets.

Germans know what Stasi and Gestapo is. Time Americans learn too, I hope.

Darth Vader is Luke's Father.

In other words, to counter the reasoning of the title of this thread.

Edward J. Snowden is certainly a whistle blower to the nations and all people of the world, (except perhaps the United States) because he has revealed that the NSA is collecting metadata on every person in the world using the named American companies.

Including all people who use Microsoft. Microsoft colluded with the NSA, to allow them to use zero-day exploits to hack into people's accounts. What government now will use Microsoft in their offices unless they are in agreement with these practices? And even if the government offices are in agreement, does that mean the people they rule or represent, are then, by default, also ion agreement to let all their habits be recorded and watched... ...70% of it by private contractors?

So, there is no question, that to the rest of the nations of the world, Snowden is certainly a whistle blower.

The only nation where this is even questionable is in the United States itself. And even then, it is questionable.

Steve Vladeck, a professor at the Washington College of Law at American University in Washington — an expert on the issue — said, “none.”

If America's lawyers and experts who love the system that created the NSA say so, then it must be illegal like everything else. Just like "enhanced interrogation techniques" and "kinetic military actions" are legal. But betraying the constitution is betraying to uphold your oath against all threats against it, foreign and domestic, and that is illegal. Quite a catch-22.

But, as the United States is learning, by trying to find some legal ground to have Snowden extradited, Snowden is a whistle blower in the eyes of the rest of the world, because he has revealed, we are being spied on. If you talk to someone in the states via phone or email... ...or private messaging on forums on American servers that use one of the companies mentioned in PRISM, your data has been mined. And unlike all the other data-miners you try to kill with Kaspersky and McAfee, the NSA dataminers always get a peek and record it.

So yes, Lord Baal, big brother is watching you too. Now are you in Oceana, Eurasia or Eastasia?

 

[Lord Baal]

Big brother might be watching me, but I don't blame him. I'm extremely interesting.

 

[NewEnd]

Big brother might be watching me, but I don't blame him. I'm extremely interesting.

I am sure your private messages and emails may be more extremely interesting than even you thought were.

Petreaus thought sharing an email account with his mistress would keep him safe.

 

[Zelig]

So now the US army is blocking access to The Guardian website.

Seems useful.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Putin said Russia won't give him asylum because he 'hurt our American allies' or something. He's boned.

 

[kramerfan86]

I think Putin left the door open if he stops leaking things though I guess so they can tell the US "hey at least we stopped the bleeding for you"

 

[Borachio]

Big brother might be watching me, but I don't blame him. I'm extremely interesting.

If he's watching me, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out he's wasting his time.

Really, BB, you are.

 

[kramerfan86]

So judging what was done to the Bolivian president the US government has childishly convinced its allies to intercept him if he does flee Russia. The US response is almost as embarrassing as the information he is leaking

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Why do you think they were prompted by the US and not acting in their own interests because they simply don't want to have to deal with it?

 

[kramerfan86]

Why do you think they were prompted by the US and not acting in their own interests because they simply don't want to have to deal with it?

Deal with what? The plane wasn't heading to their airports it was merely going to head over their airspace.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Blowback?
Giving the impression they'd look the other way at these types of leakers?

They can be averse to both of those things without direct US pressure and Obama has specifically stated he isn't going to raise Snowden's status to a high level and make a big international incident out of it and engage in serious international political horse-trading to get him.

 

[kramerfan86]

Blowback?
Giving the impression they'd look the other way at these types of leakers?

They can be averse to both of those things without direct US pressure and Obama has specifically stated he isn't going to raise Snowden's status to a high level and make a big international incident out of it and engage in serious international political horse-trading to get him.

Obama is fairly clearly lying. He isnt going to make it high status yet is personally talking about it all the time? Yea, that's believable. And going as far as refusing airspace to and grounding other heads of state's planes is pretty clearly high level treatment.

I still dont know what impression or blowback you are taking about here. We arent talking about offering him asylum or giving him shelter in your airport like Russia, we are merely talking about a plane in air space. How many non-high level alleged criminals get flights grounded?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Did the US deny anyone fly over rights? Can you prove the US was directly responsible for anyone else doing it? How is he not supposed to talk about it when that's fully half of the questions reporters ask him?

 

[kramerfan86]

Did the US deny anyone fly over rights? Can you prove the US was directly responsible for anyone else doing it? How is he not supposed to talk about it when that's fully half of the questions reporters ask him?

The vice president of the US already muscled Ecuador out of offering asylum, you really think that's the only country the US is pressuring over this thing? The US is most certainly treating this as a high level issue despite Obama's claims.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

 

[classical_hero]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/4/islamic-state-using-edward-snowden-leaks-to-evade-/

A former top official at the National Security Agency says the Islamic State terrorist group has “clearly” capitalized on the voluminous leaks from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden and is exploiting the top-secret disclosures to evade U.S. intelligence.

Bottom line: Islamic State killers are harder to find because they know how to avoid detection.

Chris Inglis was the NSA’s deputy director during Mr. Snowden’s flood of documents to the news media last year. Mr. Snowden disclosed how the agency eavesdrops, including spying on Internet communications such as emails and on the Web’s ubiquitous social media.

Asked by The Washington Times if the Islamic State has studied Mr. Snowden’s documents and taken action, Mr. Inglis answered, “Clearly.”

The top-secret spill has proven ready-made for the Islamic State (also referred to as ISIL or ISIS). It relies heavily on Internet channels to communicate internally and to spread propaganda.

Mr. Snowden “went way beyond disclosing things that bore on privacy concerns,” said Mr. Inglis, who retired in January. “‘Sources and methods’ is what we say inside the intelligence community — the means and methods we use to hold our adversaries at risk, and ISIL is clearly one of those.

Thank you for helping those who wish to hurt other, you are a real hero. Love your work. I can't believe some people believe he did good with what he did, he didn't care about people's privacy but wanted to hurt America and Americans and other nations close to her. Now we are seeing the effects of this traitor.

 

[kramerfan86]

Yup, no one I believe more on the "is the NSA's spying important" front than a freaking high ranking NSA guy who was working for them when they were outed. Not like he'd be biased in favor of their bullcrap or anything.