Why Should the security of Ukraine cause the U.S. government to shut down?

[Valka D'Ur]

We're still part of the Commonwealth.

It's in the government's best interest to present budgets that aren't so egregiously awful that the opposition parties choose to defeat it and trigger an election.

On the other hand, there are times when a minority government will deliberately present a budget that they expect to be defeated - because they may be in a stronger position to get a majority by that time.

 

[Azash]

In other words, it would seem that Americans who might ordinarily be able to rely on government aid and normal operations may have to do without such things as pay increases for teachers, lunches for schoolchildren, and medical care for the disabled and the elderly, in order to fund a large and expensive lobby that is pushing for more and more contributions for war profiteering and the proliferation of dangerous weapons such as cluster munitions.

The dichotomy between tending to the needy and helping the defense of the Ukraine is not one that has been shown, nor one that appears real. There is also some heavy begging the question going on in summarizing the defense of the Ukraine as "war profiteering". If there was financial gain in this for the US, this topic would not even have been posted.

To take the question at face value, though, few nations are so poorly that they exist completely hand-to-mouth and the US is certainly not one of them. Even if one does not see a moral imperative in defending sovereign countries from an invasion by a superpower, the US has a grave concern with withdrawing in the face of Russia. To give up at this point, in the midst of an international effort involving multiple NATO countries, especially over something as minor as budget, would be a show of weakness that the US cannot stomach. Giving Russia control of a major food source hands them increased influence in the Middle East, a region where the US is already doing quite poorly in terms of hearts and minds and that is quite dependent on the easily available grain shipments from Ukraine. The PR/propaganda victory Russia would see would also grant more credibility, more resources, and better-experienced deniable mercenaries, to their efforts to gain and wield influence in Africa. In short, geopolitically in any term beyond the immediate, ceding the Ukraine war to Russia would be a disaster for the US on three continents.

That does also not address any further developments in Europe - if the US is seen to abandon NATO aspirants like the Ukraine over internal division, then NATO as a whole will also begin to look weak. While many countries make NATO up, the US is clearly the fundament, and if their visage cracks, the unity of NATO is shaken. Russia would be more free to act in Europe, between annexing further territory and beginning to test/harangue NATO members, if NATO is weakened enough that Article V (the mutual defense aspect) looks like it will be weakly enforced.

 

[r16]

all the risks cited for US interests is a direct result of American "political" imperatives . Nobody believes America tricked Russia , actually ambushed Russia ; history will tell . Nobody believes Putin signed his surrender and whatnot in March '22 , a solid win for the West and stuff , a withdrawal , a silencing of the guns in return for a promise of neutrality and Ukranians executed their represantive for treason ; history will 'ing tell . Nobody believes . But everybody knows America is a loose cannon , undependable , untrustworthy . Even Americans will learn that .

 

[Lexicus]

This whole government shutdown is baffling.

I can explain: it is because the Republicans elected to Congress are despicable human garbage and/or raving lunatics.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I can explain: it is because the Republicans elected to Congress are despicable human garbage and/or raving lunatics.

So they're like our CPC/UCP, except that our governments don't shut down over money bills being defeated. We just have a new election while the bureaucracy continues as it always does.

 

[Broken_Erika]

So they're like our CPC/UCP, except that our governments don't shut down over money bills being defeated. We just have a new election while the bureaucracy continues as it always does.

There's about a half dozen republicans who will burn the country down if they don't get everything they want right now no compromise.

 

[Lexicus]

There's about a half dozen republicans who will burn the country down if they don't get everything they want right now no compromise.

The better framing is there's about half a dozen Republicans we know about who are willing to work with Democrats to avoid a shutdown.

So they're like our CPC/UCP, except that our governments don't shut down over money bills being defeated. We just have a new election while the bureaucracy continues as it always does.

Yes. I mean, specifically, the Republicans are going back on the agreement they made with Biden and the Democrats bare months ago.

Sadly we don't have a sensible constitution down here.

 

[uppi]

There's about a half dozen republicans who will burn the country down if they don't get everything they want right now no compromise.

There are about 200 Republicans who would rather burn the house down than vote with the Democrats

 

[Lexicus]

And to be fair to those Republicans, they're just representing their constituents, who are the real problem, but no one will say that due to political correctness

 

[Remorseless1]

The GOP tried the shutdown strategy in the 1990s...and in the Great Recession when Obama was president...and in 2019. The "reasons" given vary, but in reality, the long-term strategy is to weaken the federal government to the point of irrelevance. It's been the border, the Affordable Care Act, tax hikes, and now spending cuts -- which would trash the spending agreement the House, Senate leadership and the president months ago. The party of Inmate P01135809 thinks governance is for suckers. It's all about gaining enough power to get rid of the Constitution and go full-blown autocracy.

 

[Lexicus]

The GOP tried the shutdown strategy in the 1990s...and in the Great Recession when Obama was president...and in 2019. The "reasons" given vary, but in reality, the long-term strategy is to weaken the federal government to the point of irrelevance. It's been the border, the Affordable Care Act, tax hikes, and now spending cuts -- which would trash the spending agreement the House, Senate leadership and the president months ago. The party of Inmate P01135809 thinks governance is for suckers. It's all about gaining enough power to get rid of the Constitution and go full-blown autocracy.

They think parliamentary democracy is for suckers, and they're not entirely wrong. Which is the problem, in a way.

 

[Zardnaar]

They think parliamentary democracy is for suckers, and they're not entirely wrong. Which is the problem, in a way.

Well it's about the best we've come up with.

Let me guess the Lexicus world revolution is best way?

 

[Gorbles]

"better things aren't possible", the Redux.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I often feel like we all use the republicans as an excuse not to have any morals ourselves, so…

I'd like you to explain this statement, before we rush into the "so ..."

 

[Hygro]

Sourcing a group identity based on a Scmittian “the politically” aka unity against an enemy for your super ego was my interpretation. Which is obviously true for some. But also it felt like some heavy projection.

Like, I’m a democrat because that’s the party where my participation can move the needle to advance my morals and values. So even though it makes me “less cool” to not be some capitalism hating “both sides are evil, we only bother to vote against literal fascists and otherwise there’s no point” club member. Like values include “changes have to happen in the reality that exists today” and “psychology is real” so like, that means bringing positive energy to the Democratic Party. There’s no way around it if you actually care about real world results and snowballing any level of victory from small to large.

Meanwhile I have give the republicans an earnest shake. Easy to do when random republicans personally treat me really well. Easy to do when my Marxian history and economics education showed me how deep that “It’s the system, democrats are complicit too” and all that. The right has a lot of low hanging wisdom fruit their worldviews arrive at that is all good. But at the end of the day when you do the honest historical tallying, the right wing is consistently doing bad things, and left to their own devices the democrats are basically a mixture of actually good and compromised but steerable. So get steering! Make that bench bigger so we can swap out both the Lucy and the Charlie Brown to land this field goal. We often don’t even need a touchdown. The coffee just hit I should quit now.

I can do a lot of interpolation of Crezth’s post but in the end I don’t know how she meant it, but my first instinct was, it’s not a simple projection, and tangentially, Crezth will notice the blog post I linked doesn’t describe her as the CNN watching boomer. But in its complexities, still the post reads like it projects. But again I’m doing a lot of interpolation here so I’d like to know.

I'm not surprised they stopped posted a decade ago.

Why so?

 

[Bamspeedy]

I'm not surprised they stopped posted a decade ago.

Googling this guy, there is a reddit devoted to him and his blog.

He published a book 8 years later, so the blog wasn't the last anyone has heard from him.

Speculations from his 'fans' about why he stopped blogging range from 1. working on the book, 2. he had nothing more to say, 3. his posting style backfired from their intended purpose (he wanted his blog to get people to change their worldview, instead it got people more entrenched in their original positions).

And 4. He was doxxed. Some of his rantings weren't very politically correct, and attracted the crazies that didn't like some of what he posted.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Blogging is a lot of work and can be a real job. It can be an anchor too.

 

[Hygro]

He ended up writing about the same volume of material between 2013 and 2022 that became his promised book “of” porn. It’s like 1200 pages crammed into 250 slices of paper, a literary masterpiece that will leave you bewildered yet inspired.

 

[EgonSpengler]

And to be fair to those Republicans, they're just representing their constituents, who are the real problem, but no one will say that due to political correctness

Sorry, have to push back a little. Don't be 'fair' to Republican politicians in this way. In fact, we're probably not berating them as much as they deserve. They deliberately mislead their constituents all the time, and prey on and stoke their fears. I actually think the average conservative voter is a better person than we're led to believe, if we judge them by their politicians. Just last week, I heard a recording of Mike Pence telling 'his' people that they need to be armed to ride the subway in New York City. He made it sound like The Warriors. (I'm not sure when the recording was made. It wasn't that long ago, though.)

 

[Hygro]

Sorry, have to push back a little. Don't be 'fair' to Republican politicians in this way. In fact, we're probably not berating them as much as they deserve. They deliberately mislead their constituents all the time, and prey on and stoke their fears. I actually think the average conservative voter is a better person than we're led to believe, if we judge them by their politicians. Just last week, I heard a recording of Mike Pence telling 'his' people that they need to be armed to ride the subway in New York City. He made it sound like The Warriors. (I'm not sure when the recording was made. It wasn't that long ago, though.)

Kind of hard to know who is “in” on it, who doesn’t care about which parts, etc

When I lived in Texas I watched the Ted Cruz vs… I can’t remember his name.. debate. Ted Cruz wiped the floor with this guy, by lying. Cruz was a far better debater in part by his willingness to say he had progressive and moderate positions when it made him look good in the debate.

Most Americans, including half of republicans, have pretty progressive policy preferences on most issues when presented in a non partisan way.