Why the search for meaning?


I feel like you've misunderstood a large part of our exchange - or at least what I was trying to get across.

From what I remember there is a movement that calls itself "the red pill movement". I am not really sure what they are about - I do not go to their meetings. So if that was a source of confusion, I blame morpheus.
 
Morpheus was kinda a dick.
 
God fits nice into this POV, in a way. Because our social reality makes this hard to do, at least in some ways, we invent someone we can care about as much as we like. Whereas with real people we can only care for them under certain conditions.
And moreover, I'd say a fundamental issue of modern society is that we have to do a lot of things for a lot of people we do not care about and that makes it more difficult to find meaning.

What is meaning then? Something that isn't you and that you hold very dear, something which is important to you and which is worth of effort to you.
That can be ideals, a hobby, religion, and yes I think most of all other people. I suppose it can also be a kind of image of oneself. But that sounds rather unhealthy.
So no I don't think meaning is about merely understanding reality or understanding anything (though that is one way one can look for it). Meaning is to have something worth living for which does not just exist in the moment but transcends and stays as a reason to exist and do stuff. Sometimes this may be a small and trivial and not very powerful and not very lasting affair. Sometimes it may be something very powerful and reliable.
It in any case is something people will enjoy to have and to not have it can have pretty undesirable consequences. Though one can always try to ignore it.

I think you're very near to the truth, here.

Maybe the idea of God is just humanity's attempt to reach beyond itself.

Dunno. It's very easy for me to say things that probably don't add up to a whole lot of sense.
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Anyway. I thought the whole blue pill red pill business was all about placebos. You take the blue pill in the belief it will tranquilize you. And the red one to stimulate.
 
Your spoilered picture doesn't load, Narz. I want to know what it is you're seeking.
 
Nah, if you're slick enough you can be selfish as hell & people will still love you. I'm beginning to realize in life if you're not selfish enough (especially cloyingly, needily unselfish) people tend to like you less.
 
I'd say that being "cloyingly, needily unselfish" is probably a good description of someone who is self-obsessed.

I think being disinterestedly friendly, and cheerful, is as good a way of any of getting through life. Never mind whether it makes you popular or not.

Is "being loved" a worthwhile, or even practical, goal in itself?
 
We need to find a cover for our selfish jerky behavior, because if anyone ever sees us for who we really are, they'll hate us.
Interesting POV
Nah, if you're slick enough you can be selfish as hell & people will still love you. I'm beginning to realize in life if you're not selfish enough (especially cloyingly, needily unselfish) people tend to like you less.
I think this is a least sorta true. However, I also think that if one does not actually like to do so, to embrace such tactics anyway can be poisonous.
I used to have a very out-of-hand and even innocent way to manipulate people in a way that they would like me more. It sounds worse than it was - no one got hurt by it and I don't think I was obsessed with being liked nor egocentric. It was just a playful second nature to me. And it probably made me and my peers happier.
But nowadays I am too mindful of the manipulation-part / too bitter about certain aspects of life / people. It is weird how a negative view prevents me from doing something commonly considered negative.
 
Why are human beings so obsessed with finding deeper meanings to their lives? Is meaning just the word we give to an itch to find our 'place' -- in other peoples lives, for instance, when it comes to love, or in the universe? I know the religious response, or at least the Abrahamic: Augustine probably sumed it up when he wrote, 'we were made for thee, O Lord, and are restless until we find our rest in thee'-- but from a naturalistic, strictly biological viewpoint...where does it come from? Is it just the pattern-seeking element of our brain being turned to scrutinize itself?
Why the assumption that it has a wholly material origin? Are humans really so simple that biology can offer an exhaustive explanation of our behaviour? I think we're going to have to look for a psychological rather than a simply biological explanation, something in the structures of thought rather than just of the brain.

From what I remember there is a movement that calls itself "the red pill movement". I am not really sure what they are about
Far-right conspiracy theories, mostly. Which is a bit weird, given the pretty obvious leftist undertones of the source material.
 
Why the assumption that it has a wholly material origin? Are humans really so simple that biology can offer an exhaustive explanation of our behaviour? I think we're going to have to look for a psychological rather than a simply biological explanation, something in the structures of thought rather than just of the brain.
Psychological is a product of biology. The mind cannot be separated from the body.
 
Being loved is extremely important. Being extremely lonely is worse for you than 2 packs of cigs a day I've read.

I don't deny it's important.

What I deny is that it's something to seek.

"What shall I do today? Oh, I think I'll go out and find someone to love me."
 
As someone who enjoys solitude, I concur that love and human interaction are important. But you can't make people love you either. However, the old "If you love something, let it go" is BS. If you love something, fight for it.
 
I don't deny it's important.

What I deny is that it's something to seek.

"What shall I do today? Oh, I think I'll go out and find someone to love me."
It's nice to be loved. What better to seek?

Well, you have to be loved by someone you also love. Otherwise it's just creepy & awkward.

As someone who enjoys solitude, I concur that love and human interaction are important. But you can't make people love you either. However, the old "If you love something, let it go" is BS. If you love something, fight for it.
I dunno, I'd say anyone worth loving you shouldn't have to fight for. If you have to beg & plead & scrap & brawl to get someone to love you... well thats just too high maintenance & chances are they're think you're lame for trying so hard & leave you for some scrub who couldn't care less anyway.
 
Oh well. If you think you can seek it and find it, good luck to you.
 
I dunno, I'd say anyone worth loving you shouldn't have to fight for. If you have to beg & plead & scrap & brawl to get someone to love you... well thats just too high maintenance & chances are they're think you're lame for trying so hard & leave you for some scrub who couldn't care less anyway.

Why do you assume that by "fight" I meant "beg, plead, scrap, or brawl" ?

Who fights by begging? You fight by identifying relationships in your life that you want to improve and working at it until you're at the level you want the relationship to be at - assuming the other person is in some way interested.

I am not talking about trying to convince someone to love you - I am talking about working hard, i.e. fighting, once there is a connection worth developing there. Circumstances can be tough, and a lot of relationships just don't happen. If there is a spark - fight for it. Do not fight for non-sparks.
 
Why are human beings so obsessed with finding deeper meanings to their lives? Is meaning just the word we give to an itch to find our 'place' -- in other peoples lives, for instance, when it comes to love, or in the universe? I know the religious response, or at least the Abrahamic: Augustine probably sumed it up when he wrote, 'we were made for thee, O Lord, and are restless until we find our rest in thee'-- but from a naturalistic, strictly biological viewpoint...where does it come from? Is it just the pattern-seeking element of our brain being turned to scrutinize itself?

The meaning of course is to be honestly happy...
 
Why do you assume that by "fight" I meant "beg, plead, scrap, or brawl" ?

Who fights by begging? You fight by identifying relationships in your life that you want to improve and working at it until you're at the level you want the relationship to be at - assuming the other person is in some way interested.

I am not talking about trying to convince someone to love you - I am talking about working hard, i.e. fighting, once there is a connection worth developing there. Circumstances can be tough, and a lot of relationships just don't happen. If there is a spark - fight for it. Do not fight for non-sparks.
Don't mind me, I'm a little jaded.

Still, I have not had much success "working" in relationships. I guess in an ideal relationship where both parties are pushing themselves & the other to be the best they can be & both parties are equally invested... I've never experienced that.

At this point in my life, I'm pretty much thinking, accept me the way I am or get lost. I'll do the work I want to do for myself anyway but I'm not changing for any person.

If that attitude keeps me lonely, so be it.

Maybe the right woman will inspire me to rethink this but I am not holding my breath.
 
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