[RD] Why y'all always trying to defend Nazis?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Given credit for what, really? It's not like some arab one fine day woke up and made it his life's mission to spread the knowledge of zero among the europeans. That kind of think just spreads naturally along trade routes! Sorry but you are the one fetishizing around the idea that "the arabs did this", whatever.
I'm not "fetishizing" anything.

The Arabs shared the zero with the Europeans. That's a historical fact. Just acknowledge it and move on. There were other sorts of knowledge that were shared here and there, as well as some - SOME - things that were preserved after 1453. It's better that SOME of this happened, rather than NONE.

Are my words being converted to Romulan, or is this truly that hard to understand? :huh:

The two things "the arabs" did do intentionally were to conquer a big portion of the former byzantine empire, and to spread their own religion across that land. In that they acted pretty much as many other conquerors before and after. And it is true that had the arabs not conquered that land, then the persians, the byzantines, the mongols, or whatever people actually lived in that land would have done so. And btw, "the arabs" were not the actual population of Persia, you should probably say that the persians (or perhaps even the armenians) carried the idea of the zero from India.
As for the religion thing, a lot could be speculated about wether ih contributed to turning the mediterranean mostly from a unifying trade route to an area of division and near-constant warfare for 10 centuries. And keeping slavery into European thought, even as it declined first across western and northern Europe, and later eastern Europe. The Mediterranean was the main area in Europe where warfare remained tied to enslavement. Does that, under your logic, mean that slavery is another "technology" the arabs should be credit with transmitting from the classical world? Or was it just an accident or circumstances and geography, as I believe?
Slavery is something that has been independently invented over and over, all across the planet, in many different eras.

As for religion, I have no use for any of it. It's mind-boggling how many people seem to think that because I'm anti-Christian, that makes me pro-Islam/Muslim/whatever the correct term is. I'm atheist to all of them.

We should try to avoid projecting on people and events from the past out political ideas and biases of the present.
"We" should avoid the "royal we" because it makes "us" look pompous.

I'm done talking to you in this thread, as well.
 
Yeah, actually it is...unless you were there. The old saying is that 'history is written by the winners,' but the truth is that history is written by just about everybody. Some survives, some is lost only to be found, and some is lost forever. So we filter through what's available now and try to make some sort of mash up 'truth' out of all the varying accounts...most of which were no more reliable when they were written than the various 'factual accounts' we see of current events. The 'truth' that comes out of that mash up is pretty much total subjective interpretation.

In short, we debate.

Which, at some point, turns into mass-debating ^^
 
Well, since you seem to be perpetually confused by my posts, let's end this conversation.

We're done.
I'm guessing you were sold this idea that Muslims were especially enlightened while Europeans were brutal barbarians, and you're now backpedaling because that idea has no basis in reality. It's understandable, you're not the only one who has had those misconceptions. And, just to clarify, I'm not arguing that Europeans have never done anything wrong, or that Muslims are all bad. I'm just saying, this idea that Muslims were much more civilized than Europeans isn't on very solid grounds. Now granted there are Muslims who did make original contributions, such as Al-Khwarizmi (Muslim Persian scholar) or Avarroes, although I'm not sure Avarroes' contributions were all that significant. Also, some of the things that we associate with the golden age of Islam, such as the advanced medicine, were actually pioneered by Christians.

Also, a lot of people don't know this, but Muslim slave trade was much more prominent than European slave trade ever was.
A comparison of the Islamic slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Islamic slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims.

While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Trans Sahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!

While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service.

While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive.

While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.

It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million Africans were transported across the Atlantic (95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions. Only 5% of the slaves went to the United States).

However, at least 28 million Africans were enslaved in the Muslim Middle East. As at least 80% of those captured by Muslim slave traders were calculated to have died before reaching the slave markets, it is believed that the death toll from the 14 centuries of Muslim slave raids into Africa could have been over 112 million. When added to the number of those sold in the slave markets, the total number of African victims of the Trans Saharan and East African slave trade could be significantly higher than 140 million people.
. . .
Historian Robert Davis in his book "Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters - White Slavery In the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy", estimates that North African Muslim pirates abducted and enslaved more than 1 million Europeans between 1530 and 1780. These white Christians were seized in a series of raids which depopulated coastal towns from Sicily to Cornwall. Thousands of white Christians in coastal areas were seized every year to work as galley slaves, labourers and concubines for Muslim slave masters in what is today Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Libya. Villages and towns on the coast of Italy, Spain, Portugal and France were the hardest hit, but the Muslim slave raiders also seized people as far afield as Britain, Ireland and Iceland. They even captured 130 American seamen from ships they boarded in the Atlantic between 1785 and 1793.

According to one report, 7000 English people were abducted between 1622 to 1644, many of them ship crews and passengers. But the Corsairs also landed on unguarded beaches, often at night, to snatch the unwary. Almost all the inhabitants of the village of Baltimore, in Ireland, were captured in 1631, and there were other raids in Devon and Cornwall. Many of these white, Christian slaves were put to work in quarries, building sites and galleys and endured malnutrition, disease and mistreatment at the hands of their Muslim slave masters. Many of them were used for public works such as building harbours.

Female captives were sexually abused in palace harems and others were held as hostages and bargained for ransom. "The most unlucky ended up stuck and forgotten out in the desert, in some sleepy town such as Suez, or in Turkish Sultanate galleys, where some slaves rowed for decades without ever setting foot on shore." Professor Davis estimates that up to 1,25 million Europeans were enslaved by Muslim slave raiders between 1500 to 1800.
 
I'm guessing you were sold this idea that Muslims were especially enlightened while Europeans were brutal barbarians, and you're now backpedaling because that idea has no basis in reality. It's understandable, you're not the only one who has had those misconceptions. And, just to clarify, I'm not arguing that Europeans have never done anything wrong, or that Muslims are all bad. I'm just saying, this idea that Muslims were much more civilized than Europeans isn't on very solid grounds. Now granted there are Muslims who did make original contributions, such as Al-Khwarizmi (Muslim Persian scholar) or Avarroes, although I'm not sure Avarroes' contributions were all that significant. Also, some of the things that we associate with the golden age of Islam, such as the advanced medicine, were actually pioneered by Christians.

Also, a lot of people don't know this, but Muslim slave trade was much more prominent than European slave trade ever was.
What part of "we're done" did you not understand?
 
What part of "we're done" did you not understand?
No-one is forcing you to reply to any of this. I'm just sharing some knowledge here.
 
No-one is forcing you to reply to any of this. I'm just sharing some knowledge here.
:rolleyes:

I said I don't want to talk to you. You keep quoting my posts, which brings up notes in my Alerts and I get your posts in my email.

Leave me alone. And don't give me this "just sharing knowledge" stuff. You can easily share it without quoting my posts.
 
:rolleyes:

I said I don't want to talk to you. You keep quoting my posts, which brings up notes in my Alerts and I get your posts in my email.

Leave me alone. And don't give me this "just sharing knowledge" stuff. You can easily share it without quoting my posts.
Sure, of course. By the way, if the notifications bother you, I recommend changing your settings.
 
I'm guessing you were sold this idea that Muslims were especially enlightened while Europeans were brutal barbarians, and you're now backpedaling because that idea has no basis in reality. It's understandable, you're not the only one who has had those misconceptions. And, just to clarify, I'm not arguing that Europeans have never done anything wrong, or that Muslims are all bad. I'm just saying, this idea that Muslims were much more civilized than Europeans isn't on very solid grounds. Now granted there are Muslims who did make original contributions, such as Al-Khwarizmi (Muslim Persian scholar) or Avarroes, although I'm not sure Avarroes' contributions were all that significant. Also, some of the things that we associate with the golden age of Islam, such as the advanced medicine, were actually pioneered by Christians.

Also, a lot of people don't know this, but Muslim slave trade was much more prominent than European slave trade ever was.

4


Moderator Action: This is verging on spam, even in a non-RD thread. Don't do it again. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Moderator Action: If people have an issue with notifications, you can always subscribe from the thread. If people have an issue with other posters, that's what the Ignore function is for.
 
Hella redpilled on history.
Whereas any self-respecting SJW knows that only evil European people enslaved others. Or at least it was a bad form of slavery, while Muslim slavery was nice.

Remembering that millions of Europeans were also enslaved by Africans and ottomans is obviously racism.
 
Moderator Action: Sniping at people passive-aggressively is not going to make people magically post better. If there is nothing useful left to say, then the thread will have served its purpose for good.
 
Whereas any self-respecting SJW knows that only evil European people enslaved others. Or at least it was a bad form of slavery, while Muslim slavery was nice.

Remembering that millions of Europeans were also enslaved by Africans and ottomans is obviously racism.

Y'know, I'm pretty sure that everyone's ancestors at some point figured cannibalism was okay too. That doesn't make it defensible if I devour my neighbors in modern life. Racism had it's day, but that day isn't today. Get over it.
 
Wait wait wait. Millions of Europeans enslaved by Africans and Muslims? Even at the height of the Ottoman military drafts this couldn't have been the case. What gives you that idea?
 
Wait wait wait. Millions of Europeans enslaved by Africans and Muslims? Even at the height of the Ottoman military drafts this couldn't have been the case. What gives you that idea?

I'm thinking he is counting the Moorish influence in Iberia. Even then, millions might be a stretch, just because populations were a lot smaller.
 
Who was enslaved where?
 
Wait wait wait. Millions of Europeans enslaved by Africans and Muslims? Even at the height of the Ottoman military drafts this couldn't have been the case. What gives you that idea?

I'm thinking he is counting the Moorish influence in Iberia. Even then, millions might be a stretch, just because populations were a lot smaller.

Read about Barbary Slavery, and the enslaving of Ukrainian and Russians by Ottomans and their protectorate, the Crimea Khanate.

Yes, millions of Europeans were enslaved by Africans and Muslims. Barbary slavers (Africans) alone enslaved more than 1 million Europeans, all the way to the 19th century.

You SJWs really need to study some history.
 
Problem is that you're justifying slavery by saying everyone did it, which justifies future slavery too.

Edit: I mean, I know that you aren't actually a wannabe slaver. I know you're just adopting this position to be contrary to SJWs. I'm saying you should get better arguments.
 
Moderator Action: Just like how one is not allowed to call other members 'Nazis', 'Neo-Nazis', or 'White Supremacists', one is also not allowed to sling around 'SJW' as a negative descriptor when interacting with other members. Even if someone self-describes as a Social Justice Warrior, it is still inappropriate to call them that with the intent to use it as a negative judgement of their character. There are not many scenarios where beginning your thoughts with "You SJWs" or with sarcastic undertones is a civil, innocent, or otherwise innocuous way of expressing oneself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom