Windows 8

[Iranon]

Nuking all dotfiles that might be vaguely related is a bit of an overkill solution. Most obvious way would be right-click desktop, Add Panel.
But yes, that's probably one reason why Apple doesn't let you remove the dock without jumping through hoops - things that are much easier to do than to undo are potential newbie traps.


Personally, I expect my OS/GUI to let me do something stupid rather than dictating what's good for me or making me do a little dance to show I'm worthy of making my own decisions. It's my bloody computer.

*


I find OSX excessively quaint and am not a fan of the (somewhat disjointed) skeuomorphy, but I'll grant that it has the most polished interface I've seen on a desktop operating system.
Obstinate though - for example, setting it up for someone with less than perfect eyesight (but enough to render the accessibility tools overkill) was a pain in the bum. "Don't care what you think your needs are, leave our gorgeous design alone. Or resort to clumsy hacks".

Windows 8 on the other hand contains considerably more design blunders than the average Linux desktop: ridiculous duplication and scattering of similar functionality over different configuration screens, jarring transition between Not-Metro and Not-not-Metro, newbie-unfriendly corner actions, haphazard trimming of bling that doesn't fit the new aesthetic (some useful visual cues gone, some jarring effects remain). This is before the definitely-not-advertisements.
Tackiest interface I've seen yet, which is disappointing because the aesthetic they chose would have been comparatively easy to pull off well.

Yes, some Linux interfaces are ugly by default. Not sure my favourite one (FVWM) changed its default look since 1993, hooray for consistency. Want your own look and functionality? Powerful configuration through a single file in open-ended plaintext, get cracking or use something more "user friendly".
Still, other environments do care about their defaults. I don't quite get KDE's fetish for checkboxes and twirling bouncing dancing throbbing notifications, but Gnome Shell and Cinnamon are pretty enough.

 

[Zelig]

Every Linux interface I've ever seen in any configuration has been ugly.

Windows 8 on the other hand contains considerably more design blunders than the average Linux desktop: ridiculous duplication and scattering of similar functionality over different configuration screens, jarring transition between Not-Metro and Not-not-Metro, newbie-unfriendly corner actions, haphazard trimming of bling that doesn't fit the new aesthetic (some useful visual cues gone, some jarring effects remain). This is before the definitely-not-advertisements.
Tackiest interface I've seen yet, which is disappointing because the aesthetic they chose would have been comparatively easy to pull off well.

There's not a single bad thing you listed here which is relevant to me.

I uninstalled all the ad-containing apps.
I'm not an idiot, using the corners isn't difficult, though they're irrelevant on the desktop.
I don't use metro on my desktop, I don't use the desktop on my tablet, none of the transition/duplication things are relevant to me.

 

[innonimatu]

Desktop UI is nicer, task manager is better, file transfers are better, MS account integration is better, multi-monitor support is better, backups are better, startup is faster.

Better multi-monitor support would be a nice thing... except that the OS by default does its best to prevent users from opening more than one application at the same time! Pray tell, what am I going to use those other monitors for? Just how braindead were the designers of this new user interface?

Linux desktop... can't run MS Office.

That the linux kernel isn't contaminated with the obscure and proprietary APIs needed for running MS office is not any bug, it's a feature! It can be made to run on a linux-based system, but why bother paying for that when good office suites freely are available? It's 2012, Office suites have long ago become commoditized!

Yes, some Linux interfaces are ugly by default. Not sure my favourite one (FVWM) changed its default look since 1993, hooray for consistency. Want your own look and functionality? Powerful configuration through a single file in open-ended plaintext, get cracking or use something more "user friendly".

Ah, good choice. For some time I moved away from that one and into the Gnome boat, but now I've returned to good old FVWM. The thing about linux is that there is indeed plenty of choice.

And the thing about Windows was that the defaults were good and people didn't had to mess with the system just to make it usable. Windows 8 managed to throw even that away - now you have to lose your time reconfiguring it to use it as a desktop computer is used! Might as well spend that time customizing a linux system now.

 

[Zelig]

Better multi-monitor support would be a nice thing... except that the OS by default does its best to prevent users from opening more than one application at the same time! Pray tell, what am I going to use those other monitors for? Just how braindead were the designers of this new user interface?

The OS does no such thing by default, the desktop works just fine.

That the linux kernel isn't contaminated with the obscure and proprietary APIs needed for running MS office is not any bug, it's a feature! It can be made to run on a linux-based system, but why bother paying for that when good office suites freely are available? It's 2012, Office suites have long ago become commoditized!

MS Office is the only good office suite.

And the thing about Windows was that the defaults were good and people didn't had to mess with the system just to make it usable. Windows 8 managed to throw even that away - now you have to lose your time reconfiguring it to use it as a desktop computer is used! Might as well spend that time customizing a linux system now.

You can use Windows 8 exactly as you use Windows 7 with essentially no configuration.

 

[Quintillus]

That the linux kernel isn't contaminated with the obscure and proprietary APIs needed for running MS office is not any bug, it's a feature! It can be made to run on a linux-based system, but why bother paying for that when good office suites freely are available? It's 2012, Office suites have long ago become commoditized!

A couple years back I tried using only open-source office suites for a month, primarily because I uninstalled Office without realizing I didn't have my install CD around. It wasn't a particularly pleasant experience. Features weren't always up to par (for example, graphing options in spreadsheets), and compatibility with existing files (or files others sent to me) was hit-or-miss. It convinced me that the fairly modest price for Office Home and Student was well worth it for the hassle and convenience it saved, and ease of use of several features that if Open Office had them, weren't well-exposed.

Every Linux interface I've ever seen in any configuration has been ugly.

I think my KDE 3.5 VM actually has a pretty nice, eye-pleasing interface, while still being pretty practical (or at least it was when KDE 3.5 was less ancient). More modernly, I've been favorable impressed with Linux Mint 13 with MATE (GNOME 2).

This seems like a really strange criticism of Linux, though. With hundreds of distributions, lots of configuration options, not being to find anything that isn't ugly? That seems really improbable.

The Blue Screen of Death seems a lot nicer, but like it's being explained to an eight-year-old.

There's still a lot of people who have a lot less familiarity with computers than your average 8-year-old does with life in general. If they see something like this:

They'll have no idea what it means, probably think something is seriously wrong (when it likely isn't that bad), and may well think that they did something to cause it (when they probably didn't). Whereas the new one is more innocuous, and makes it sound like the computer will probably recover on its own (which it probably will). It also says that the computer ran into a problem, not that the computer detected a problem that maybe the user or maybe some scary bad virus caused. It is friendlier, but even more so for someone who isn't familiar with blue screens already.

 

[Zelig]

I think my KDE 3.5 VM actually has a pretty nice, eye-pleasing interface, while still being pretty practical (or at least it was when KDE 3.5 was less ancient). More modernly, I've been favorable impressed with Linux Mint 13 with MATE (GNOME 2).

This seems like a really strange criticism of Linux, though. With hundreds of distributions, lots of configuration options, not being to find anything that isn't ugly? That seems really improbable.

Doesn't seem that strange to me, most Linux desktops have been only very minimally concerned with UI/UX design. Unity is probably the biggest exception, and I have pretty limited experience with Unity. (Tried it in a VM, quickly got annoyed with lack of performance and nuked it.)

Haven't used MATE, but a from a quick look at some screenshots:

Typography is poor. Segoe and Lucida Grande are way nicer than whatever most distros roll by default, and Windows and Mac OS are largely better at font rendering.
Almost all (with a few exceptions, the quit/logout icons on the start menu) the icons look bad. Even the Bluetooth icon has an ugly gradient applied.
Rounded top window corners are pixelated.
Close/about/etc. buttons on bottom of windows look awful.
Drop shadows, fades and gradients are seemingly randomly applied and look bad.
Start menu looks really good (excepting the typography, icons and random fade on the scrollbar).


I'd be willing to pay a pretty decent amount (maybe $50/yr) for a distro with consistently awesome UI, typography and professionally designed icons.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

Today I got one of those "Black Friday" door-buster fliers in the good 'ol snail mail. They were showcasing the great new windows 8 on desktop PCs. My first thought was "Good god man, move that ugly tablet UI crap back where it belongs".

It goes without saying I won't be buying any pre-configured PC's as a gift for anyone I know this year.

 

[Iranon]

What constitutes good font rendering is highly subjective.
OSX tries to render fonts accurately, if they don't fit into the pixel grid things get blurry and also wider (you can have accuracy in line thickness or darkness, OSX picks the latter).
Perfect as a print preview and consistent among different fonts. Individual glyphs (especially those featuring dots or narrow curves) can be annoyingly fuzzy though, especially on the low-contrast setups common in OSX.

Windows tolerates no blur and would rather abuse the typeface to fit into pixels/subpixels. Some things are jagged, some things are lighter than they ought to be, some things are distorted. Still inconsistent depending on shape and font format, but individual quality is fine since 7 (Vista got the same in an update, XP remains highly problematic). I still find it ugly in many situations, people who favour sharpness over fidelity will disagree.

Linux as usual leaves it up to the user. Ubuntu's default seems a very decent compromise to me: smooth and barely distorted, but less fuzzy than OSX. Other distributions are a mixed bag, some look quite bad to me. I think those either avoid formerly patent-encumbered tech or ignore font-supplied hints for consistency over quality (if that's it, OSX does it better).

Interesting tidbit about screen fonts: Segoe (Microsoft), Liberation (Red Hat), Droid and OpenSans (Google) families were made by the same designer, all heavily optimised for low-resolution screens.
Naturally, they render well more reliable than common Linux defaults not optimised for screen use (ghostscript fonts and their derivatives) or brand identity fonts (Gnome's Cantarell has some limitations, Ubuntu is quite solid but maybe a little too distinctive).

 

[innonimatu]

The OS does no such thing by default, the desktop works just fine.

You seriously want to pretend that Metro is not the default interface, or that it freely allows (without needing extra configuration) users to keep several application windows open at the same time?

MS Office is the only good office suite.

Several others have become "good enough" for the vast majority of users years ago. Microsoft is even being forced to chase the "office suite in a browser" model pioneered in large deployments by Google!

The one big problem that alternatives to office keep having is compatibility with the latest changes Microsoft keeps making to its proprietary file formats. Microsoft falsely claims "openness" of its file formats, while writing into its "open" standards stuff like simply "implement feature X as Microsoft office does".
I wish governments started taking action to force Microsoft to really default to open and properly documented standards if they want to sell anything to state entities.

 

[Zelig]

You seriously want to pretend that Metro is not the default interface

You seriously want to pretend that it's not trivial to not use metro?

Seriously, I've done no essentially no configuration regarding the UI, and I never see Metro in my Win8 install, just associate some desktop programs to open files instead of the Metro defaults and you're set.

Several others have become "good enough" for the vast majority of users years ago.

They're really not very good.

 

[innonimatu]

You seriously want to pretend that it's not trivial to not use metro?

Seriously, I've done no essentially no configuration regarding the UI, and I never see Metro in my Win8 install, just associate some desktop programs to open files instead of the Metro defaults and you're set.

As trivial as it is to install an whole different desktop environment in a linux distribution: one the command line and issue a single command; log out and in again selecting the new environment. That didn't prevent you from dissing "the linux desktop".

Of interest to anyone considering windows 8, beware of the ARM version. Any hardware it is sold with is locked for running Windows 8 only. Microsoft demanded of manufacturers a "safety feature" requiring that all boatloaders be signed with a Microsoft-held key and despite claims that they'd sign other legitimate bootloaders attempts to allow different OS to run there have been delayed with to good excuse by Microsoft so far.

Windows 8 is so bad that Microsoft absolutely wants to forbid you from swapping it for any alternative, it seems.

 

[Zelig]

As trivial as it is to install an whole different desktop environment in a linux distribution: one the command line and issue a single command; log out and in again selecting the new environment. That didn't prevent you from dissing "the linux desktop".

Yeah, but all the Linux desktops are ugly, so the triviality of switching doesn't really matter.

And I'm glad to see you've got no actual response to the Windows 8 UI being fine.

Of interest to anyone considering windows 8, beware of the ARM version. Any hardware it is sold with is locked for running Windows 8 only. Microsoft demanded of manufacturers a "safety feature" requiring that all boatloaders be signed with a Microsoft-held key and despite claims that they'd sign other legitimate bootloaders attempts to allow different OS to run there have been delayed with to good excuse by Microsoft so far.

Windows 8 is so bad that Microsoft absolutely wants to forbid you from swapping it for any alternative, it seems.

So it's basically the same as all the other tablets available. (With the exception of the Nexus devices, but there aren't any alternatives to Android to install on them anyway.)

 

[innonimatu]

Yeah, but all the Linux desktops are ugly, so the triviality of switching doesn't really matter.

And I'm glad to see you've got no actual response to the Windows 8 UI being fine.

No need, reality speaks for itself. You have one opinion, I have the opposite opinion. We'll see whether Windows 8 or Linux as a desktop OS gain users.

So it's basically the same as all the other tablets available. (With the exception of the Nexus devices, but there aren't any alternatives to Android to install on them anyway.)

No it's not. Far, far from it, many tablets are not locked down. Asus played with making it difficult to install other OSs bug gave up Samsung too. Among the big sellers only Apple and now Microsoft are really determined to wall in their customers.
Though Microsoft, of course, is not and doesn't seem likely to ever be "big" in Tablets!

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Are there still compatibility modes?
And the idea of a tablet UI is in deed nothing but revolting to me. If one can get rid of such silly nonsense, fine, but to me Windows 8 still seems full of stuff I don't need or want and which may just annoy me. And is there any actual need to try to force non-tablet users and those that use into the same boat? Of course not. It from what I can tell is merely the effort of MS to get people to use the same OS on tablet and PC, probably hoping to create a complete OS-environment which is from MS and the MS-user will never leave. Well they shall try. But I hope they will fail. Because I feel that the traditional desktop-costumer only stands to loose when his needs are not prioritized anymore.
Also, I find libreoffice works fine. And I never had trouble to open MS office files with it.

 

[Mise]

We'll see whether Windows 8 or Linux as a desktop OS gain users.

 

[innonimatu]

"First they ignore you, then laugh at you...

...then they shoot themselves in the foot, repeatedly. Then we'll see. Firing the guy who managed the trainwreck that Windows 8 is turning out to be isn't going to save this one for Microsoft.

 

[Zelig]

No need, reality speaks for itself. You have one opinion, I have the opposite opinion. We'll see whether Windows 8 or Linux as a desktop OS gain users.

I use Linux on a daily basis, and its marketshare is going nowhere for the next decade at least.

No it's not. Far, far from it, many tablets are not locked down. Asus played with making it difficult to install other OSs bug gave up Samsung too. Among the big sellers only Apple and now Microsoft are really determined to wall in their customers.

That's pretty much what I said. The only tablets which you can install alternative operating systems on are Android tablets, and the only choice of alternative operating system to install on them is Android.

"First they ignore you, then laugh at you...

...then they shoot themselves in the foot, repeatedly. Then we'll see. Firing the guy who managed the trainwreck that Windows 8 is turning out to be isn't going to save this one for Microsoft.

There's no indication he left the company for any reason related to Windows 7/8 quality. There's no way MS turns around from where they're going with Win8.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

There's no way MS turns around from where they're going with Win8.

Declining sales is a pretty good motivator.

 

[Zelig]

Declining sales is a pretty good motivator.

Declining sales in favour of what?

They're not losing Win8 sales to Linux or Mac OS because of Win7->Win8 changes.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Why not? I'm pretty lost when it comes to computers and I'm not set on Win 8 when I upgrade. I only use my PC for occasional gaming. If it looks too bad I might just go with mac or something else.