Windows 8

[Zelig]

If you don't like Win8 in comparison to Win7, you're going to like Mac OS much less.

FWIW, I think Mac OS is underrepresented in the market, I expect it to uptick until it reaches a similar long-term marketshare as iOS, ~15-20%.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I already use a mac for all purposes other than gaming. It's been working without any viruses or the need for formats for at least 5 years now. I may skip the PC next time, especially if win8 means a downgrade to the PC as a gaming machine.

 

[Zelig]

My Windows machine has been working without any viruses or the need for formats for nearly 8 years now.

Win8 doesn't mean a downgrade - it's flat out better than Win7.

 

[innonimatu]

I already use a mac for all purposes other than gaming. It's been working without any viruses or the need for formats for at least 5 years now. I may skip the PC next time, especially if win8 means a downgrade to the PC as a gaming machine.

Don't worry, by that time you should have Valve's Steam store and a good portion of its vast library of games ported to Linux. It's till in beta but so far Valve's ports of its own gamers and engine are already faster in Linux than in Windows!

The back story for this is interesting, and it is related to the changes in business model that Microsoft has made with Windows 8. Microsoft has been trying to copy Apple's rent-seeking strategy by setting up an "app store" for Windows 8, but other distributors selling software online for the Windows platform were quick to smell the rat: every time Microsoft tries to get into a market leveraging their Windows system they go for monopoly, wiping out any former "partners" who are in the way. Thus Valve is moving to find a good alternative to Windows. An open alternative where an owner of the platform can't sabotage their business. Linux is the obvious choice: it has so far been used industrially for everything from kitchen appliances to TV sets, cars, mobile phones, and supercomputers precisely because no one "owns" it, no one is in a position to screw users or developers.

The only thing linux lacked for gaming were companies with clout developing for it. That's a done deal now.

 

[Zelig]

The only thing linux lacked for gaming were companies with clout developing for it.

Also the UI is bad.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Don't worry, by that time you should have Valve's Steam store and a good portion of its vast library of games ported to Linux. It's till in beta but so far Valve's ports of its own gamers and engine are already faster in Linux than in Windows!

The back story for this is interesting, and it is related to the changes in business model that Microsoft has made with Windows 8. Microsoft has been trying to copy Apple's rent-seeking strategy by setting up an "app store" for Windows 8, but other distributors selling software online for the Windows platform were quick to smell the rat: every time Microsoft tries to get into a market leveraging their Windows system they go for monopoly, wiping out any former "partners" who are in the way. Thus Valve is moving to find a good alternative to Windows. An open alternative where an owner of the platform can't sabotage their business. Linux is the obvious choice: it has so far been used industrially for everything from kitchen appliances to TV sets, cars, mobile phones, and supercomputers precisely because no one "owns" it, no one is in a position to screw users or developers.

The only thing linux lacked for gaming were companies with clout developing for it. That's a done deal now.

This is the reason I'm skeptical of Win8. Several developers have raised issues with the direction Microsoft is taking in the new OS. We'll see whether Linux will be the next gaming platform or not.

 

[Iranon]

Windows 8 is quite a step forward where functionality is concerned, and I can get around most things I find tacky about the user experience. The real problem isn't with users, but developers... declaring the classic desktop legacy seems a risky move.

Digital distribution services like Steam are naturally displeased the most... nicer when you don't have to give a cut or compete with something built into the OS. Especially if you already invested heavily in your own infrastructure.
An operating system with DRM in place, commitment to compatibility, well-supported development tools and limited competition from the vendor itself was a major attraction of the Windows platform. Much of that is still there, but the fear of having to play to much more restrictive rules or be marginalised will erode some of the attraction.

*

There are some hurdles to Linux as a mainstream gaming platform.

Graphics drivers are still in a bit of a sorry state.
Fragmentation: About a dozen major distributions with about dozen major GUIs. Hundreds for both if counting obscure/niche ones.
Linux development: Let's break everything because we came up with something technically sweeter, not good to keep closed-source software operational.
May be unpleasantly technical for the average user. There are dozens of projects addressing that, fighting against one another.

For a consumer-friendly UNIX... OSX had over 10 years to refine itself, used a more integrated codebase with a more appropriate license (BSD), avoids many headaches because it only needs to run on a limited hardware selection and has the resources of the most valuable corporation in the world behind it.
Linux really shouldn't chase that, when it has its own strengths to play to. Can it be a good consumer platform when that's a lower design priority than freedom, modularity, transparency, technical correctness?
Not sure. But those qualities are important, both to the core audience and to independent developers trying to escape corporate dickery.

Personally, I think the interface situation on Linux is Awesome though. Choice. Polished GUIs emphasising a good out-of-the box experience, sensible ones that will seem familiar to most by default and are modular enough to adjust easily, and many that are a fantastic playground for tweakers (pick your configuration style: friendly GUIS, text with simple markup for optional GUIs where desired, human-readable plaintext, scripting languages, Lisp dialects... there's something for every level of geekiness).
Every taste gets served, from stark minimalism to 3d-accelerated bling that's more cool than tasteful.

 

[Mise]

I don't think they're declaring "classic desktop" as "legacy" at all.

For me, the only thing that Windows 8 does wrong is not integrating the "charms" with the desktop interface. As I understand them, "charms" are essentially identical to "intents" in Android; I'd love to have the ability to access them via the desktop. Right click -> share -> pick application -> job done. No copying and pasting and alt tabbing and file saving and reuploading and blah blah blah. Sadly they haven't done this, which is a shame.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

This is for all of you out there who are advocating the use of Windows 8 for your desktop PC.

Summary:
Hidden features, reduced discoverability, cognitive overhead from dual environments, and reduced power from a single-window UI and low information density. Too bad.

Anyways read this article.

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html

This article will hopefully open your eyes to the sorry state of Win 8 on a PC.

Of course fanbois will be fanbois so...

 

[Zelig]

I read that article, he mostly just throws around big terms in order to seem smart, without any real or meaningful information. Seriously, none of the criticisms of Metro are relevant if you just use the desktop, which is trivially easy to do.

You can call me a fanboi all you want, but my primary computer is a Mac.

For me, the only thing that Windows 8 does wrong is not integrating the "charms" with the desktop interface. As I understand them, "charms" are essentially identical to "intents" in Android; I'd love to have the ability to access them via the desktop. Right click -> share -> pick application -> job done. No copying and pasting and alt tabbing and file saving and reuploading and blah blah blah. Sadly they haven't done this, which is a shame.

At best, individual desktop applications would need to be updated to support this.

Beyond this, it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing - MS wants to encourage WinRT development, but it's going to be a few years before any really big projects move over - MS needs several more years of enhancing WinRT user capabilities, and developers need enough of a user base to make it worthwhile.

 

[Hehehe]

When I first saw the metro UI, I just instantly disliked it. It seems like something that's been designed with tablets in mind. I haven't used it, so I cannot say if it is good or not. Who knows, with some getting used to I might even like it. But I just see no reason to move to win8. It offers nothing I particularly want. No incentive to go through the hassle of updating.

Personally, I think I'll just stick with windows 7 until win 9 comes along.

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

I read that article, he mostly just throws around big terms in order to seem smart, without any real or meaningful information.

I believe you should reread it then, I got twice as much information on my second read-through.

Also the fact that multiple windows has been scrapped is actually quite an issue to me on a desktop.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Declining sales in favour of what?

Keeping 7.

 

[Iranon]

The familiar old desktop with multiple windows is still there. You'll see comparatively little of the interface changes if using traditional desktop applications on a traditional desktop.
What has changed for pure desktop users may feel a little off (some stylistic concessions because those elements are the same for the fondleslab-friendly UI) but is in my opinion functionally better than what it replaced.

For me, it's still inadequate without (buggy) 3rd party tools.
I have liked native virtual desktops, tabbed window management, decent tiling functionality and a few other things the *nix world has had since the nineties... but they're not going to add sophisticated window management while trying to convince everyone that 1 "window" ought to be good enough for everybody.

 

[Zelig]

When I first saw the metro UI, I just instantly disliked it.

So did I, but then I used it for a few days and it was fine.

I believe you should reread it then, I got twice as much information on my second read-through.

Also the fact that multiple windows has been scrapped is actually quite an issue to me on a desktop.

You can open multiple Windows just fine on the desktop.

Windows 8 is a superset of Windows 7, there's essentially nothing that Windows 7 does that Windows 8 doesn't do as well or better.

Keeping 7.

People who buy Windows as a standalone OS, or computers without an OS are negligible.

The overwhelming majority of consumer PCs are sold with Windows OEM, where Windows 8 is going to be the only option.

Enterprise sales are going to be Windows 8 regardless of what they plan on using, since Windows comes with downgrade rights.

 

[innonimatu]

People who buy Windows as a standalone OS, or computers without an OS are negligible.

The overwhelming majority of consumer PCs are sold with Windows OEM, where Windows 8 is going to be the only option.

Enterprise sales are going to be Windows 8 regardless of what they plan on using, since Windows comes with downgrade rights.

Microsoft: relying on monopoly for sales since 1996! That is going to end some day, you know?

 

[Zelig]

I eagerly await improvements to any OS.

I don't care a whole lot about marketshare.

 

[Iranon]

Quality of an OS is practically irrelevant compared to software availability and inertia. Chicken and egg situation - software won't get ported unless the OS gains market share, OS struggles increasing market share unless it has the applications most people want.
Dramatic changes are only likely when an established player screws up big time.

From what I've seen, BSD seems a better operating system than Linux. Don't have enough incentive to find out. Many others might be, but I wouldn't know because I have little to compare it to and their obscurity means I probably won't be able to run the software I want on them.

 

[Zelig]

http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/...11/27/windows-8-40-million-licenses-sold.aspx

40 million licenses sold in the first month, outpacing Windows 7.

I wish my software products could fail this badly.

 

[Zack]

40 million licenses sold in the first month, outpacing Windows 7.

Just the opportunity Linux has been waiting for.