wise vs smart

[Askthepizzaguy]

Intelligence relates to skills, facts, and trivia, computational power, and so forth. It relates to your ability to process information.

Wisdom is quite different.

Let us suggest an artificial intelligence was connected to the internets and all libraries and bodies of information, such as media outlets, and had access to every piece of information known to man, and had enough processors to be considered the greatest thinking machine of all time.

But let us also suggest this AI has no real world experience, and is just given all this information to process, and not told what to do with it. Could this powerful AI figure out how to govern a planet, solve ethical problems, or know how or why to use the tools at its disposal?

Unless AI makes significant advances, the answer is no. It does not know, it has no experience, and it is not very good at comprehending the things it "learns", which it really just stores as data.

Even small-brained animals know to fight or flee when attacked by a predator. Some of this is instinct, of course, but that is still a form of natural wisdom. Intelligent species learn how to overcome certain instincts, and say, approach humans for food, and get such food. Wisdom helps you determine what you should or should not do, it helps you comprehend and make sense of the things you know, and asks ethical questions. It helps you understand how and why things work.

With wisdom, you could conceivably find all the information you need; you'll know where to look. Maybe you start cataloging the data in a library and eventually it gets plugged into the ultimate supercomputer someday, but the point is, with wisdom, you may be able to figure out how to achieve your goals. Mere intelligence does not enable you to do anything except recall known facts and process them. That doesn't help you make decisions.... well, it can help you be aware of the facts and help you understand the facts, but it won't help you understand why those facts are relevant, or why you should care, or what you should do.

Wisdom is that which separates us from the computer, really. A computer does not have the capability of wisdom. It simply stores data and processes it. It doesn't know how to use that data until we give it programs which does that on behalf of the computer. We have to put small bits of wisdom into the computer, wisdom we designed; the computer can't do it by itself.

Wisdom is the true intelligence; "intelligence" is simply data processing and memory storage.

"Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - anon

Yes, this.

 

[Clement]

There is no biological or statistical merit to this hypothesis. People who have high general intelligence are more competent in all areas, including math, language, musical talent, artistic ability, etc.

It's fascinating to see people try to defend lack of intelligence so much by pretending that those who lack it have worth in other fake cognitive areas. This is silly. This is like trying to defend fatness as a virtue as opposed to fitness, or shortness as opposed to tallness, drug abuse compared to abstinence, or lack of music talent compared to musical genius. So you lack a desirable trait and are not fit to be a major player to shape the world - get over it. Not all bees are biologically destined to become queen.

Empathy and compassion are highly valued character traits yet they are not necessarily dependant on intelligence, they grace a human being or even an animal with a nobility that no amount of quick wit or physical prowess can bestow, intelligence is no guarantee of a good nature, in fact, if we look at the world around us and the way it is run we may even be tempted to say intelligence rarely guarantees a good heart.

Wherever in human history that heart has been missing dark days have followed, it is the ability to feel someone elses pain that is vital to our social peace and survival, a super high intelligence isn't, i know a person who would considered a little slow by some, he is a genuinely wonderful human being, where his nobility comes from i have no idea, but it certainly isn't his intellectual prowess that lends him that air of dignity.

 

[Kyriakos]

I wonder how much intelligence is required so as not to do battle with one's own projections

I think that everyone wants to be intelligent, and all sane people understand that all people in healthy state of mind would see that as a positive trait. However i have never seen a person with notably low IQ become mad. I wonder why is that. Could it be- like scientists claim- because he is sheltered from acutely wrong thoughts from his incapacity for intricate thinking?
And this would be a case where low intellectual capacity has a positive effect too. Of course, goes without saying, that no one envies such a state.

 

[Narz]

There is no biological or statistical merit to this hypothesis. People who have high general intelligence are more competent in all areas, including math, language, musical talent, artistic ability, etc.

But not necessarily social skills or having a worthwhile personality. I'm sure you know people like that, perhaps even intimately.

It's fascinating to see people try to defend lack of intelligence so much by pretending that those who lack it have worth in other fake cognitive areas. This is silly. This is like trying to defend fatness as a virtue as opposed to fitness, or shortness as opposed to tallness, drug abuse compared to abstinence, or lack of music talent compared to musical genius.

Tallness is not a virtue. Short people live longer & have a genetic advantage in certain environments, they also have less back pain, fit better on planes & when female are far more attractive. For someone so smart that's a pretty bloody stupid parallel.

No one is defending lack of intelligence, just saying it has it's limits. For instance, people who think themselves generally intelligent often overestimate their own value & opinions even in areas they have little to no expertise. Some especially delusional & emotionally crippled types lose all perspective entirely, thinking their own intelligence allows them to see the world with utter objectivity. The intelligent as well as the stupid often are capable of losing touch with reality but for those who've been reinforced as "smart" the damage they're capable of inflicting is much greater because they're intellect allows them more convincing rationalization. Again, you may know people like that.

So you lack a desirable trait and are not fit to be a major player to shape the world - get over it. Not all bees are biologically destined to become queen.

Ahahahahaha, this is just what I mean, you use your own inate feeling of "smartness" to justify lazy thinking & making judgments that have no bearing in reality. No one here said smartness "isn't important" nor do any posters in this thread I've seen deserve to be called stupid (as you're basically calling them).

It's been shown empirically that praising a child for being smart as opposed to effort actually produces lower quality work, perhaps that's what happened to you.

Also, stupid people obviously shape the world profoundly, look at popular culture (though you could argue that the smart feed the masses Jerry Springer & Lady Gaga to exploit them).

As for your biological superiority, how's that working out for you? The ladies standing in line around the block hoping to woo you to get some of Mr. Queen-B's uber-smart genes? Do let us know player!

 

[Flying Pig]

There is no biological or statistical merit to this hypothesis. People who have high general intelligence are more competent in all areas, including math, language, musical talent, artistic ability, etc.

Can I borrow you to give me a hand teaching cadets? I get so much use out of the old army phrase "Mr Atkins, you've like a lighthouse in the desert - bright as anything, but sod-all use to anyone!"

In the same vein there's the quote from Full Metal Jacket - admittedly fiction, but I think it echoes reality: 'Believe it or not, but under fire, Animal Mother can be a wonderful human being. All he needs is somebody throwing hand grenades at him for the rest of his life': Animal Mother later, through his leadership skills when his section commander is killed, saves his section from being killed by a sniper.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Without wisdom, how do you know how to apply smarts?

 

[Narz]

Without wisdom, how do you know how to apply smarts?

By telling people they're wrong on the Internet?

 

[Kraznaya]

Intelligence: quantifiable, objective.
"Wisdom": Unquantifiable, relative.

"Wisdom" is for people without tangentially superior qualities to delude themselves with a measure of solace.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Intelligence: quantifiable, objective.
"Wisdom": Unquantifiable, relative.

"Wisdom" is for people without tangentially superior qualities to delude themselves with a measure of solace.

How much is quantifiable and objective about social interactions?

 

[civplayah]

I voted wisdom.

 

[carmen510]

Wisdom, because its the definitive skill in Planescape Torment.

 

[Clement]

Intelligence: quantifiable, objective.
"Wisdom": Unquantifiable, relative.

"Wisdom" is for people without tangentially superior qualities to delude themselves with a measure of solace.

How can we be sure intelligence is being measured in it's entirety? have we mapped and understood every last part of the human brain?

How much is quantifiable and objective about social interactions?

Good point, besides a super high intelligence is just one virtue of many that can make up a human being, it certainly isn't the be all and end all, far from it actually.

 

[Narz]

Intelligence: quantifiable, objective.
"Wisdom": Unquantifiable, relative.

"Wisdom" is for people without tangentially superior qualities to delude themselves with a measure of solace.

Being able to type a lot of Words Per Minute is also quantifiable & objective while having charisma is unquantifiable & relative. I doubt I'd find one honest man who'd rather have the former.

I don't think it's the wisdom crowd that's trying to find solace here.

Anyway, intelligence isn't really quantifiable either. You can point to an IQ test but that doesn't speak much to real world intelligence. For example IIRC heavy gamblers are more intelligent than typical people but that doesn't stop them from behaving irrationally.

 

[Disgustipated]

No one has yet proven to me that Wisdom exists, or how it can be measured in the brain with MRI's or whatever. I have my doubts wisdom exists.

I do believe in common sense (although that's just a type of intelligence) and empathy. Those 2 attributes combined could be called Wisdom in a way. Nevertheless, they are separate attributes.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Intelligence: quantifiable, objective.
"Wisdom": Unquantifiable, relative.

"Wisdom" is for people without tangentially superior qualities to delude themselves with a measure of solace.

They're still trying to find good quantifiable tests for intelligence. And which kind of intelligence to test for.

I went for wisdom. I know a lot of people who would be considered extremely "smart" (PhD's and the like) who can't seem to apply it to anything in their lives. Wisdom is for getting along in the world with a minimum of problems you create for yourself.

 

[Bill3000]

But not necessarily social skills or having a worthwhile personality. I'm sure you know people like that, perhaps even intimately.

That's not intelligence, that's the ability to conform. There's no point to conform if you're one of the people who have the ability to control the world. It is still better than the unintelligent who become incompetent basement dwellers who work in McDonalds or Initech. Besides, that is incorrect; dumb people by definition lack worthwhile personalities, as they lack the ability to make any interesting conversation.

Tallness is not a virtue. Short people live longer & have a genetic advantage in certain environments, they also have less back pain, fit better on planes & when female are far more attractive. For someone so smart that's a pretty bloody stupid parallel.

Incorrect. Tall people have more job success than short people, in addition to physical attractiveness. One inch yields $789 a year. Tall people are more confident, are more admired and seen as better leaders. It is precisely an excellent parallel - being tall means that you are more likely to be a successful leader in society.

No one is defending lack of intelligence, just saying it has it's limits. For instance, people who think themselves generally intelligent often overestimate their own value & opinions even in areas they have little to no expertise. Some especially delusional & emotionally crippled types lose all perspective entirely, thinking their own intelligence allows them to see the world with utter objectivity.

That is completely contradictory to the empirical data. Intelligent people actually underestimate their abilities and might judge other people incorrectly as having the ability to be as competent as them. Meanwhile, stupid people overestimate their own intelligence, and their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes. This is the Dunning-Kruger effect, and is far more general than intelligence, applying to things such as chess, the ability to play golf, or driving a car.

Ahahahahaha, this is just what I mean, you use your own inate feeling of "smartness" to justify lazy thinking & making judgments that have no bearing in reality. No one here said smartness "isn't important" nor do any posters in this thread I've seen deserve to be called stupid (as you're basically calling them).

It's been shown empirically that praising a child for being smart as opposed to effort actually produces lower quality work, perhaps that's what happened to you.

Also, stupid people obviously shape the world profoundly, look at popular culture (though you could argue that the smart feed the masses Jerry Springer & Lady Gaga to exploit them).

As for your biological superiority, how's that working out for you? The ladies standing in line around the block hoping to woo you to get some of Mr. Queen-B's uber-smart genes? Do let us know player!

Being able to type a lot of Words Per Minute is also quantifiable & objective while having charisma is unquantifiable & relative.

Charisma can be quantified rather easily through an election.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

No one has yet proven to me that Wisdom exists, or how it can be measured in the brain with MRI's or whatever. I have my doubts wisdom exists.

I do believe in common sense (although that's just a type of intelligence) and empathy. Those 2 attributes combined could be called Wisdom in a way. Nevertheless, they are separate attributes.

It's difficult to prove using science, but I think rationally, I could demonstrate by definition that it exists, using logic.

Intelligence and wisdom both fall under an umbrella category, not sure what to call it, but they are related in that they both involve knowledge. So let's call it knowledge for the sake of expedience, even if it isn't precise language.

Intelligence involves knowledge of facts, and problem-solving skills. A computer, for example, possesses both. It can store facts, and it can perform certain basic functions like addition. But even with information and basic functionality, a computer has no way of making use of this information, no idea what the information does, what its purpose is, or why it should use it. It's all greek, to the computer. And even though it can perform simple functions, it doesn't know when to perform those functions. It has much of the power of the mind, but not all of it. It is missing key components of what we would call intelligence, but it is not missing all components.

Wisdom, on the other hand, is another loose term for a different kind of intelligence, pertaining to understanding what kind of information one possesses, how it relates to other pieces of data, how to use that data, understanding why to use that data, and allows you to make decisions based on experience and intuition. It can be as basic as the reflex to remove one's hand from a burning stove, as instinctive as fleeing from a predator, or as deep and philosophical as to ponder the ethical considerations of capital punishment. Wisdom is also possible in a situation where you lack crucial bits of intelligence; for example, there is no rule book or natural enforcer of morality or prudence. Yet, experience shows us that certain actions have consequences, and that those consequences can be negative, and that it is not in our best interests to pursue certain courses of action. Even if you have never ingested a poison, you might have seen or heard about accidental deaths in others, and learned that ingesting certain substances can be harmful. That's data, but in a computer it would just sit there doing nothing. The computer wouldn't understand what it means. Wisdom means understanding the point of that information, and being able to use it; you learn to avoid ingesting substances which could be toxic.

Arguably, it's all data; the facts, and the information pertaining to when and why to use those facts. But, there is something unique about knowledge pertaining to when and why, in that, the only way you can know these things is by experience or thought experiments, and that requires a different kind of intelligence than simple possession of knowledge and memory recall, I would argue.

Logically, there is a difference in those two distinct types of intelligence. I'd argue that there is a third kind, memory; possession of an efficient and accurate memory storage and recall system is a piece of intelligence, but it is only one part which by itself is meaningless. A computer possesses EXCELLENT memory, and can recall data with startling speed and accuracy. It can perform certain basic functions with incredible speed. However, a computer presently still needs a human being to program what to do with those functions, and it still won't understand what they do. A computer only covers 1-2 parts of what a human brain does, and has no innate ability to do the third.

One might consider wisdom to be a key component of sentience, but perhaps that is an oversimplification.

Is this helping, or making the concepts more confusing?

 

[Earthling]

No, not helping, these definitions much like Kyriakos' and some others are generally really poor and not really grounded in anything real besides how people want to interpret the words.

What Formaldehyde said earlier was probably one of the best posts on the thread. Anyway I know I voted for an option really early on back when the thread was made, might have been one of the first voting that way and with all this discussion I'd stick with it. Have to agree with a bunch of people on the most consistent and best definitions, and then that same conclusion given the original OP

 

[Shadowbound]

Wisdom can be acquired. Intelligence, can't.

 

[GoodGame]

False dichotomy, as I have both.