Would the GOP types push the USA into default ?

[bugwar]

Except in this case the Republicans are the ones acting like a toddler, holding their breath turning blue, all because they refuse to go to sleep. But you can't hold your breath forever - and either way, your body is going to take the rest it needs.

The longer you tantrum, the more foolish you look and the harder you'll crash, and that crash is inevitable.

Interesting word picture.

Since Osama Obama his own holy self says there is no negotiation till he gets it all his way, you might want to rethink that image you are generating.

 

[KMRblue1027]

Interesting word picture.

Since Osama Obama his own holy self says there is no negotiation till he gets it all his way, you might want to rethink that image you are generating.

Because the Republican's already rejected a full deal back in July that all this mess would have been avoided. The only frikin reason this is happening is because Boehner wanted to make a stand against Obamacare! It's already law get over it.

 

[bugwar]

Because the Republican's already rejected a full deal back in July that all this mess would have been avoided. The only frikin reason this is happening is because Boehner wanted to make a stand against Obamacare! It's already law get over it.

As long as there is no money to fund it, Obamacare can stay a law for all I care.

One of the nice things about America is that bad laws don't last forever.
One of the quickest ways to throttle a bad law is withold its funding.

That is one of the responsibilities of Congress you know (and not that of dear leader Obama), to decide what to fund.

 

[Antilogic]

I guess it's some sort of final defence mechanism for some US people here to actually think they are just fine, and not to be compared with countries like Greece. Nevermind that Greece actually can (in theory) refuse to pay off the debt and still continue to exist as a united country, whereas the US is not likely to survive what is probably going to happen anyway (sadly). It goes without saying that the situation is already bad in both countries, only worse here currently, but potentially a lot worse in the US soon.

The main point is, though, that these things are not jokes. Some of you keep being self-glorified comedians. Fine, but the reality of your state makes that alarming by now. Keep on thinking that the problems in the US will just go away, though. I mean that is the new mantra, afterall.

I agree. Stop making this into a bad joke.

Seriously, if I were to suggest that Greece solve its deficit problems by returning to the Clinton tax rates or adopting chained CPI for Social Security or retiring half of its Nimitz-class carriers or stop building so many nuclear weapons or insert anything else of that nature here, you would think that is stupid and irrelevant because Greece did not have the same tax structure, Social Security, massive carriers, or nuclear weapons to begin with. I hate it when people pretend they are a Very Serious Person with Serious Solutions to solve The Big Problem when they can't even acknowledge the clear and obvious differences between, say, the situation in Greece and the USA.

I'll reshow my own post again because clearly some people didn't see it. They had a deal in July for F sakes. Republicans need to own up to the damn shutdown already.

Boehner is either a reneger or has no control over his caucus. I'm a bit more inclined to believe the latter, given how many votes he has failed that he thought he had the votes for and should have passed.

 

[KMRblue1027]

What the hell? You can't hold the whole <snip> country hostage because there's a law you don't like!!!

You know what we can flip this whole ship around if you want. Until you pass a law removing the second amendment and banning firearm ownership in the US, we won't make a budget. You know how <snip> stupid that sounds? Because it's exactly what you are doing!

Edit: That was not directed at you Anti. Carry on.

Moderator Action: Inappropriate language removed. Remember that just obscuring parts of unacceptable words while leaving them recognizable is not okay.

 

[bugwar]

What the hell? You can't hold the whole <snip> country hostage because there's a law you don't like!!!

Why shouldn't the Republicans follow the example of dear leader Obama?
Obamacrats hold the country hostage to their demands for funding his holy pet project.

Either the Republicans pay off his ransom demand or the President will force the country into bankruptcy.

Talk about holding a gun to the head.

Moderator Action: You're still responsible for everything you post, so be careful what you quote.

 

[KMRblue1027]

It's not a pet project! It's not even close, the Dems want true universal healthcare. This is the best we've got for now.

Are you really this indoctrinated that you cannot see that failing to pass a budget because something is law and being too much of a baby to accept SCOTUS opinion is effectively treason? Because it is it really is. It's a fundamental misunderstanding about the role of Congress.

Seriously if you wanted Obamacare gone so bad get into congress and vote for the damn things repeal. That's how congress does its job.

 

[Cutlass]

Interesting word picture.

Since Osama Obama his own holy self says there is no negotiation till he gets it all his way, you might want to rethink that image you are generating.

You have yet to name one compromise made by Republicans in the past 5 years. Why should every single "compromise" be a complete capitulation on the part of Obama?

 

[bugwar]

It's not a pet project! It's not even close, the Dems want true universal healthcare. This is the best we've got for now. .

That is funny. Sad, but still funny.

Are you really this indoctrinated that you cannot see that failing to pass a budget because something is law and being too much of a baby to accept SCOTUS opinion is effectively treason? Because it is it really is. It's a fundamental misunderstanding about the role of Congress.

Seriously if you wanted Obamacare gone so bad get into congress and vote for the damn things repeal. That's how congress does its job.

ORLY?
Let me put on my lecture hat:

“The Budget and Accounting Act of 1921 requires the President to submit the budget to Congress for each fiscal year which is the 12-month period beginning on October 1 and ending on September 30 of the next calendar year.
...
In general, funds for federal government programs must be authorized by an "authorizing committee" through enactment of legislation.
Then, through subsequent acts by Congress, budget authority is then appropriated by the Appropriations Committee of the House.
In principle, committees with jurisdiction to authorize programs make policy decisions, while the Appropriations Committees decide on funding levels, limited to a program's authorized funding level, though the amount may be any amount less than the limit.
...
A conference committee is typically required to resolve differences between House and Senate appropriation bills.
Once a conference bill has passed both chambers of Congress, it is sent to the President, who may sign the bill or veto it.”

Please let me know if I missed anything in the explanation of “how congress does its job” that would imply a “fundamental misunderstanding about the role of Congress.”

 

[Hygro]

Why shouldn't the Republicans follow the example of dear leader Obama?
Obamacrats hold the country hostage to their demands for funding his holy pet project.

Either the Republicans pay off his ransom demand or the President will force the country into bankruptcy.

Talk about holding a gun to the head.

I'm going to assume you're serious.

It's worth reminding everyone that the only people who seriously use religious or hero-worship language regarding the president are not his supporters.

Or in other words, the black and white thinking that it takes to perceive the political rival as perceived as the dear leader/messiah of his own supporters means such people are realllllly seeing things in black and white. And that means our side = the good guys, the heroes, and honest folk, and their side = the villians, liars, cheats, thieves, and deliberate forces of evil. Only I, someone who has mixed feelings about the president (too hawkish on the deficit, puts certain national security nonsense above freedom, but good on some other things), support the passage of the budget.

However that puts me in the camp of dear leader revering Obamacrats, and thus the enemy of the tea party.


Let's think about this for a second. There's one group shutting down the government of whom many (almost all?) think in this black and white way. This means they are choosing conviction and identity over reality, facts, and truth, whenever things are a gray area. So because The Identity is Good, and The Identity is friends with certain policies, making them Policies of Good, challenges to that policy are the Other, aka Evil to those who use the term, or simply Bad, and therefore any identity associated with that is The Enemy, or The Bad Other Identity.

This is why anything Obama suggests, even if its their own policy idea, becomes evil and the language gets insanse. Obama is a fascist socialist lizardperson antichrist, so this bill is Unconstitutional and will do Everything We Hate.

And since The Identity (the good guys) is the hero, and the hero is good and does good things and hostage taking is bad, and because there is a political hostage situation, then CLEARLY it's the other side taking the hostage. And you'd have to be one of the bad guys to think otherwise, or misinformed (tricked).

Wow.

We can argue it all day, but in the end, I think it's pretty clear that most reasonable people of all types, even those against the ACA and for the shutdown, understand the Republicans and only the Republicans are the extortionists here.

 

[KMRblue1027]

Because the Senate has made multiple budgets and the house keeps rejecting them! You're freaking delusional at this point.

Alright I'm out Cutlass and co. you can deal with him, I don't have the patience for this anymore.

 

[bugwar]

Because the Senate has made multiple budgets and the house keeps rejecting them!

Funny you should mention that.
The House also submitted multiple budgets and the Senate and dear leader Obama kept rejecting them.

 

[bhsup]

Actually, they can hold the country hostage. Though I wouldn't characterize it as that. All appropriations bills are supposed to start in the House. They are just fulfilling their Constitutional responsibility. That the Senate and Presidency are not singing to their tune is another matter entirely.

 

[Cutlass]

Funny you should mention that.
The House also submitted multiple budgets and the Senate and dear leader Obama kept rejecting them.

Only because they insist on complete surrender by the patriots.

 

[JollyRoger]

Why shouldn't the Republicans follow the example of dear leader Obama?
Obamacrats hold the country hostage to their demands for funding his holy pet project.

Either the Republicans pay off his ransom demand or the President will force the country into bankruptcy.

Talk about holding a gun to the head.

A majority of the House would side with Obama if Boehner would just hold a vote.

 

[Tahuti]

Only because they insist on complete surrender by the patriots.

"Mercy belongs to the lord!"

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Bugwar, do you have a plan on how you'll readjust to civil society once you have to safe face by the next election? We understand how scawy the new world is, so we can help you find the perfect FEMA resort for you.

 

[bugwar]

Actually, they can hold the country hostage. Though I wouldn't characterize it as that. All appropriations bills are supposed to start in the House. They are just fulfilling their Constitutional responsibility.

Nice point.

That the Senate and Presidency are not singing to their tune is another matter entirely.

That the House is not kowtowing to the Democratic Senate and Presidential tune is a more apt turn of phrase.

Moreover, before anyone gets all upset, remember that WE (voting Americans) put both houses in office.
They are only doing what we charged them to.
Maybe not what you or me in particular wanted them to, but as a bloc, they are responding to the collective wishes of the voters.

It is not the representative’s fault that their bosses are schizoid.

 

[Cheetah]

If I have understood everything correctly, then:

A. Boehner is not a fool like the Tea Partiers. He has said that he won't allow a default, and has the power to hold a vote whenever he chooses.

B. There are enough sane Republicans to vote with the Democrats to fix this madness if a vote is held.

C. The Tea Partiers will turn their anger towards Boehner if he holds a vote without "winning".

Which means that:

1. If nothing else is done, Boehner will hold a vote before the 17th, and things will be okay - for this time.

2. Boehner will lose his support in the Republican party and thus his position as Speaker.

3. Another Republican will take his place. Is it known whom that may be? Someone sane or not?

This of course all assumes that:

D. Boehner has the balls to risk his job to save his country. Is this a safe assumption to make?

 

[Frozen In Ice]

Actually, they can hold the country hostage. Though I wouldn't characterize it as that. All appropriations bills are supposed to start in the House. They are just fulfilling their Constitutional responsibility. That the Senate and Presidency are not singing to their tune is another matter entirely.

How would you characterize it then? How would you describe a minority of government threatening to cause economic damage unless it gets its way on an unrelated, duly passed by Congress law just for a six-week continuing resolution, as something other than a hostage situation?

This is how this is playing out:
Republicans: "that's a nice government and economy you got there, it'd be a shame if something happened to it, so give us what we want on Obama care"

Democrats: "no, you can't blackmail us"

Republicans: "why aren't you negotiating!"