People who don't leave the stadium in protest after witnessing a kneeling protest should be thrown out of the stadium for disrespecting our country.
YOU'RE FIRED!
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stinkubus
Emperor
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Or going to the bathroom, many don't take off their hats, and having been to about a dozen or so NFL games in my life I can say with certainty a non-zero number of people remain seated anyway.
civvver
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I just don't understand why people get so bent out of shape over this. I do not care one single bit what nfl players do during the anthem. I guess I'm not nationalist enough. But it's just a symbolic song. America has problems, it is ok to point those problems out. And if you don't like that cus it makes you uncomfortable just ignore them! I don't even turn on the tv in time to see the players sitting, this impacts my life so little.
"Yeah but they're disrespecting the military!" Please, most of those people in the military are there out of financial incentive not because of deep rooted patriotism. Some are, and many sacrifice, but most of the people I know joined because they wanted college paid for or they didn't have a better career option or didn't know what they wanted to do yet and thought it would look good on a resume. We have like this obsession with honoring our current military in this country, when comon, this isn't WWII anymore when people signed up to actually save the free world out of moral obligation.
Also most of it seems like veiled jealousy. I think stodgy old white people are just uncomfortable with rich black young men. It's the same aversion to hip hop culture, they will pretend it's cus they rap about violence and drugs but really I think their success just makes them uncomfortable cus it's not status quo. They didn't get success "the right way" by going to college, pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and becoming doctors or something. Cus that's what old white people know, we've benefited from being part of this middle class so long, it's uncomfortable to see people leap frog them. I think they would have the same aversion to young tech millionaries, like anytime a hollywood actor or app inventor does a political protest you get the same responses, but they're a little more ok with it cus they look like kids next door.
Just look at lebron, ask old white guys about him and they'll say how he couldn't ball with larry bird and how he's a thug and stuff when lebron has never been in trouble with the law his entire life, has been with the same woman forever with their kids and is by all accounts a family man. And people can't stand him, they think he's a prima donna.
Anyway, I know very few people under the age of 40 who actually care about the nfl players sitting, but almost everyone I know over that thinks it's terrible. I think it's generational.
"Yeah but they're disrespecting the military!" Please, most of those people in the military are there out of financial incentive not because of deep rooted patriotism. Some are, and many sacrifice, but most of the people I know joined because they wanted college paid for or they didn't have a better career option or didn't know what they wanted to do yet and thought it would look good on a resume. We have like this obsession with honoring our current military in this country, when comon, this isn't WWII anymore when people signed up to actually save the free world out of moral obligation.
Also most of it seems like veiled jealousy. I think stodgy old white people are just uncomfortable with rich black young men. It's the same aversion to hip hop culture, they will pretend it's cus they rap about violence and drugs but really I think their success just makes them uncomfortable cus it's not status quo. They didn't get success "the right way" by going to college, pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and becoming doctors or something. Cus that's what old white people know, we've benefited from being part of this middle class so long, it's uncomfortable to see people leap frog them. I think they would have the same aversion to young tech millionaries, like anytime a hollywood actor or app inventor does a political protest you get the same responses, but they're a little more ok with it cus they look like kids next door.
Just look at lebron, ask old white guys about him and they'll say how he couldn't ball with larry bird and how he's a thug and stuff when lebron has never been in trouble with the law his entire life, has been with the same woman forever with their kids and is by all accounts a family man. And people can't stand him, they think he's a prima donna.
Anyway, I know very few people under the age of 40 who actually care about the nfl players sitting, but almost everyone I know over that thinks it's terrible. I think it's generational.
metalhead
Angry Bartender
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Would the MAGA mouth-breathers have been bent out of shape over the disrespect of the flag/anthem, if the players said beforehand they were kneeling for the anthem until a wall was built across the entirety of the Southern border?
One cannot escape the conclusion that it is the subject of the protest, and not the manner of the protest, that really has people upset.
One cannot escape the conclusion that it is the subject of the protest, and not the manner of the protest, that really has people upset.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Its not a violation when Republicans do it
I think commedores post gives light to why people are angry of this kneeling business and its nothing to really do with violating regulations. Its culture based thing about what is considered culturally disrespecting the flag
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Stadiums have large screens that show what the cameramen are filming and those cameramen film what their producers and directors tell them to film. Those large screens are also commonly conveniently placed below the flag, so what's on the screen is still visible in my field of vision while I'm looking at the flag.
No, it's not. Literally the first major protest action carried out by BLM was the riot in Ferguson. They immediately chose the route of violent resistance instead of trying to work within the system to bring about the change they want or even trying more peaceful methods of protest.
Are you joking me with this question?The President of the United States of America called on the NFL owners to Fire any player participating in the protest.
But does Trump have any authority or power to actually force the NFL to take that action? No? Has he threatened any kind of sanctions or legal action against the NFL if they allow these protests to continue? No? Then that is still just a man expressing an opinion and a man expressing an opinion is not an attack on free speech, even if that man is the president. You seem to really be struggling with the difference between merely expressing an opinion and acting on those opinions. If I say I think you should be disbarred and no longer allowed to practice law because I disagree with your politics, but I have no authority or ability to actually do anything about it, then I have not threatened or suppressed your rights at all. Now if I were in a position to disbar you and actually did it because I disagreed with your politics, then I have attacked and suppressed your right to free speech.
So again I ask, what exactly have NFL fans done to actively suppress the players' right to free speech? Because right now it really seems like you are arguing that people should not have the right to disagree with this protest.
You usually don't get this snippy with me. I haven't offended you have I?
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
NFL players as well are just some men expressing an opinion. No attack on the country, as the hyperbole prone tend to call it, is taking place. They are looking for attention towards a specific issue that they believe is ignored. Anyone who calls this an attack on the nation needs to have his head examined. Anyone who equates fellatioing the flag with patriotism is talking out of his arse. It's a complete non-story, and it would only work in America were people yammer about free speech but get absolutely bananapeanutbuttersandwichinsane when they see it being expressed in a way that does not gel with them. Screw them. When the 24 hour media who, lacking a Las Vegas story, have no business being on air for 24 hours, because there just isn't that much to report, are eager to dive face first into this ****, and will push that **** in your face with 8 pundits sitting around the desk all acting as if this warrants any kind of extensive discussion dragging on for weeks. But it works. Because people are looking to be offended. And what is easier than drumming up some fake patriotism in America? Just show a flag, some bleary eyed anthem and talk ballcocks.
Some guys take a knee during the national anthem. Big effing deal. Not worth anyone's time, and certainly not the president who should have other things to occupy his mind. The one positive about this, if Trump diarrheas his oafishness over this non-event all over twitter, at least he is too busy to interfere with more serious businesses. Like running the country.
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Some guys take a knee during the national anthem. Big effing deal. Not worth anyone's time, and certainly not the president who should have other things to occupy his mind. The one positive about this, if Trump diarrheas his oafishness over this non-event all over twitter, at least he is too busy to interfere with more serious businesses. Like running the country.
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Case in point. What a bunch of mouthbreathing morons. And I'm talking across the board. From the presenter, to the reporter to the idiots burning the gear.
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Agreed. And those disagreeing with them are just expressing theirs. If anything, this whole situation is a fine display of free speech in action. That's why I keep answering Sommer's question of "why aren't you defending their right to free speech?" with "because it's not under attack."
Yeah, I'm not happy with NFL players kneeling, but I certainly don't care enough about the issue to start burning things. I just look at this whole thing as a lot of soldiers and veterans look at it: ignorant civilians being ignorant civilians.
As to the violations of US flag code mentioned. Yeah, that annoys the crap out of me to no end. If you are going to display the US flag and pretend to be a patriot, at least have the good sense to do it correctly. I am that guy who will see a flag being displayed incorrectly and will knock on the door of the owner of the flag and tell them to fix it.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
None of this is against soldiers or veterans. They do not factor in this story.
Related:
https://twitter.com/sureguy625/status/912397342589960192
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...-trump-versus-nfl-standing-up-for-free-speech
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Yeah but the stadiums aren't live streaming FOX Sports Sunday, and the cctv stadium camera guys aren't "the media". Most importantly, the cctv camera guys at the stadium aren't filming protest kneelers during the anthem and putting it on the big screen at your stadium and you know it. Also, you're shifting goal posts again... first it was the players... then it was "the media" now its the cctv cameras at the stadium? You're really stretching hard to be offended here
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Nope, the first protest actions of BLM were in response to the Trayvon Martin killing by Zimmerman the year prior to Ferguson. Also, I think you're using a really loose and over-inclusive definition of BLM and "they" in a pretty self-serving way to your narrative here. The BLM folks organized a peaceful protest, so your assertion that "They immediately chose the route of violence" is demonstrably false. They started with peaceful protesting of the Zimmerman shooting then a peaceful protest in Ferguson. Then some unaffiliated folks took advantage of the situation to start looting etc. The police came in with riot gear and cracked down on everyone. You're choosing to include the looters in with BLM because it helps the conclusion that you've already committed to, which is to be against the movement.
As for the rest... Donald Trump is the head of the government. There is no clearer a case of the government acting against free speech than the literal head of the government calling on people to be fired for expressing their support for civil rights or protesting a government symbol. If Barack Obama had gone on TV and announced that every gun store in America had better close in observance of Martin Luther King day, you would not hesitate to claim that was a violation of your Second Amendment rights and you know it.
No you haven't offended me... and even if you did that's my problem not yours... which is part of the point of this debate, isn't it?
In any case, having lengthy spirited debates over politics, social issues etc with intelligent people who I enjoy talking to is well worth getting my big-boy feelings hurt every now and then
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
While the looters may not have been BLM representatives, the motives of the looters is what was really debatable. One side saying the looters were mad and taking out their anger, the other side thinking they were just greedy and taking advantage of a situation. If one wants to use the looting to represent the anger of a community, they will have to accept the consequences that the group is going to be looked down on as criminals.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
White America is blamed for everything bad that ever happens to black people.
Interesting you go from one small sub-group to an entire race in a country. Do BLM members sign a form so one would know who is in the group and who isn't? I'm referring to the people who support BLM AND justified the looting (the store owners didn't do anything to deserve the looting).
Gori the Grey
The Poster
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You know the one that bothers me? It's not related to this particular topic. It's the people who fly the flag off of their vehicles, usually a pick-up truck. Very quickly, that means the edges of the flag get frayed and tattered. That is not respecting the flag, dammit. And I know the guy in that pick-up truck thinks he's a true patriot and I'm a latte-sipping coastal elite who ought to leave this country because he doesn't love this country.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
But they weren't portrayed as opportunistic criminals. They were portrayed as people angry with the court verdict and totally justified in their looting.
Didn't we just have a thread where people stated their opinion that supporting the free speech of nazis made you just as bad as them,? Even if one disagreed with the content of the nazi speech, just allowing him to speak makes you an enabler.
With that logic, justifying the looting makes you an enabler, even if you say "But looting is not what I would have done in that situation".
