If the second UU and UB modcomp is ever made an official part of this mod, it might be cool to have the second Japanese UU be a replacement for the Spy, the Ninja. Also does Leoreth plan on incorporating the Super Spies modmod? If so, perhaps the Ninja can gain espionage XP twice as fast.
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1700AD Scenario Development Thread
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Oregon Lee
Royal Tenenbaum
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2012
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I don't much support the second UU modmodmod, but I don't like the idea of a ninja being a unique unit. I'd rather it be a type of plane or ship in the early 20th century
awesome
Meme Lord
Then it wouldn't be a ninja.
Bair_the_Normal
転輪聖王
Let's remember that blending two opposites is not really a good idea.
And no matter how many times I need to say it, a torii is not a good UB. I highly doubt that any group of people, spies, artists, or otherwise, would congregate at a gate to a shrine.
And I'll still put forwards the shiro as a castle replacement.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
I'm going to put in my two cents and suggest the idea of a Bunraku Theater.
There aren't that many puppeteering traditions as rich or sophisticated as the one that arose in Japan.
Would be a great addition to assist with the Culture goal as well.
I don't have an idea for the effect, but it should reasonably be a UB replacing the Theatre or the Amphitheatre.
Also, a firm no to blending Ninja & Samurai.
I'd recommend the addition of the Zero.
There aren't that many puppeteering traditions as rich or sophisticated as the one that arose in Japan.
Would be a great addition to assist with the Culture goal as well.
I don't have an idea for the effect, but it should reasonably be a UB replacing the Theatre or the Amphitheatre.
Also, a firm no to blending Ninja & Samurai.
I'd recommend the addition of the Zero.
Locutus_Morti
Prince
I disagree with the Zero. In two years it was outdated and outmatched by similar American planes. The Samurai is pretty irreplaceable, though the UB could definitely use some thought.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
If the Zero is perceived as not lasting long enough, then my reserve pick would have to be the Sōhei,
the warrior-monks that were prevalent during Feudal Japan,
starting from the Heian Period all the way to the Sengoku Period.
What it would replace is up to debate, and certainly not the Missionary,
but I would suggest the Pikeman, as the naginata was prominently used amongst them.
I still standby the Bunraku Theater as a good choice for the UB.
Bair_the_Normal
転輪聖王
In my opinion, sōhei aren't good at all for a military unit. Their prominence is best shown through the protection and defense of Buddhist communities and temples within Japan. The only relevant display of sōhei is with the Ikkō-Ikki.
But I don't think the UU needs to change right meow. It's only the UB that's a 'problem'.
In which case, full steam ahead for jinja.
But I don't think the UU needs to change right meow. It's only the UB that's a 'problem'.
In which case, full steam ahead for jinja.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
I was under the impression we were at least partially talking about the 2nd UU & UB modmodmod.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I think the Samurai should stay the 1st UU of Japan. I mean, it's one of the most iconic UU in the game.
I did consider using the Zero as the 2nd Japanese UU. But what use does it has in the game? None. It will never be used. It's a waste to use it as a UU. Especially if it's the vanilla UU.
I wouldn't use the Shiro as the vanilla UB of Japan. I'm afraid it's obselete before you can even think of building it. However, you can always make it obselete with a later tech.
The Jinja is a good UB. (That's why I use it as a 2nd UB
)
But personally, I don't have much problems with the Kaizen Plant actually. If you apply the changes I suggested in post 418, it's an attractable building to have.
I did consider using the Zero as the 2nd Japanese UU. But what use does it has in the game? None. It will never be used. It's a waste to use it as a UU. Especially if it's the vanilla UU.
I wouldn't use the Shiro as the vanilla UB of Japan. I'm afraid it's obselete before you can even think of building it. However, you can always make it obselete with a later tech.
The Jinja is a good UB. (That's why I use it as a 2nd UB
)But personally, I don't have much problems with the Kaizen Plant actually. If you apply the changes I suggested in post 418, it's an attractable building to have.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
I think the Samurai should stay the 1st UU of Japan. I mean, it's one of the most iconic UU in the game.
I did consider using the Zero as the 2nd Japanese UU. But what use does it has in the game? None. It will never be used. It's a waste to use it as a UU. Especially if it's the vanilla UU.
I wouldn't use the Shiro as the vanilla UB of Japan. I'm afraid it's obselete before you can even think of building it. However, you can always make it obselete with a later tech.
The Jinja is a good UB. (That's why I use it as a 2nd UB
But personally, I don't have much problems with the Kaizen Plant actually. If you apply the changes I suggested in post 418, it's an attractable building to have.
What's the 2nd UU currently?
The assets for the Sōhei do exist already by the way.
embryodead's Sengoku mod has them.
Again, I'd like to make my case for them seeing as they're relevant over a wider period.
(Also some of the Sōhei costumes are quite unique; you should take a look at their hats)
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Ashigaru.
Pikeman with 8 strength, but only 50% vs. Mounted units.
Pikeman with 8 strength, but only 50% vs. Mounted units.
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Oh, I guess that's fine as is then.
UnholyMudcrab
Chieftain
Alternatively, it could be a Musketman with a hammer discount to reflect their conscription. Maybe with a small (say, 25%) bonus vs. mounted units.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
^ It should be a Musketman for realism, but then it won't benefit from Himeji Castle.
UnholyMudcrab
Chieftain
What about upgrading Himeji Castle to work on Gunpowder units as well? It would only affect Musketmen since it obsoletes with Rifling.
Or I suppose we could give the Ashigaru CGI and Drill I by default, but that might be tacking too many bonuses on.
Oregon Lee
Royal Tenenbaum
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2012
- Messages
- 2,748
Leoreth, I have some suggestions for the 1700 map.
Boston should be moved down one, and New York should be moved one to the left.
Jamaica and the Bahamas should have cities on them which belong to England. The Trading Company would make them worth-while.
Orthodox shouldn't be in the Middle East or Egypt. In fact, in 3000 and 600 maps it never is either; between the Seljuqs, Arabs, and Turks.
The Spanish city that allows entry from the Pacific into the Carribean should be moved. I think it'd be better not to allow Pacific-Caribbean naval movement until the Panama Canal. Maybe the jungles of the Panama can open up and Panama City can be placed with Colombia respawns.
Boston should be moved down one, and New York should be moved one to the left.
Jamaica and the Bahamas should have cities on them which belong to England. The Trading Company would make them worth-while.
Orthodox shouldn't be in the Middle East or Egypt. In fact, in 3000 and 600 maps it never is either; between the Seljuqs, Arabs, and Turks.
The Spanish city that allows entry from the Pacific into the Carribean should be moved. I think it'd be better not to allow Pacific-Caribbean naval movement until the Panama Canal. Maybe the jungles of the Panama can open up and Panama City can be placed with Colombia respawns.
iOnlySignIn
Prince$s
It used to work for Gunpowder units as well. But then Leoreth changed it.
I think it should work for Gunpowder units. It's good for realism. As for balance - Japan's unit combat was never meant to be balanced in the first place.
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