2008 NBA Playoffs

[Spartan117]

Why, oh why does there have to be such horrible calls?!?!?!?!

In the last minute of the game a bunch of bad calls. First the Tim Duncan getting a defensive rebound than the ball gets knocked out by LA. But no LA gets the ball. Then you have Ginobili foul Gasol but no call. Then you have Kobe Bryant extend his elbow to "create" space (which ultimately pushes Bowen away for a clear look- ala Michael Jordon) but no offensive call.

that call alone changes the whole game. The Spurs would have had the ball for the last shot with a tie game. But no, of course no offensive foul for Kobe in the last 30 seconds of the game with the game on the line.

Then finally a bunch of contact on the loose ball with ginobili getting a hand on it but then is knocked to the ground. No call.

Seriously the NBA has to revamp the officiating. Half bet on games in the NBA(not necessarily their own though) and for years the officiating has been heavily criticized. In the major sports in the United States the referees do not dictate the pace of the game and outcome of the game as much as in the NBA. There needs to be added instant replay in the final few minutes of the game. Human refs are horrible and not reliable. NBA refs although having a difficult job are not reliable and often make calls favor "super stars" and home teams. Enough of this... there should be tons of pressure on Stern to change the officiating in the NBA. Screw people's complaints on the so called "flopping" this should take priority over just about anything.

No...no they dont. Your going to have to actually speak for yourself here.

How high is Dirk rated?

His career average is 22.4 points 8.6 rebounds while shooting 47% from the field 38% from 3 point and 87% from free throw. Meanwhile playing 36 minutes and almost averaging 3 assists a game over the course of 10 seasons.

The guy has been quite good to the say the least. Surely he is not best defender but still the guy is good.

The stats speak for themselves.

Edit:

also has one of the best statsheets for a PG in history

I replied with his stats. Statistically there are quite a few that are better on paper. By any chance do you over rate him a bit as for as PG's go historically. He played extremely well in Phoenix's system. However he is pretty bad defensively and on Dallas played no where near the same as in Phoenix. Impressive stats no doubt but one of the best statsheets for a PG in history. Too much. Maybe in the top ten point guards if that. Keep in mind he has not won a championship and probably wont in the near future.

 

[Azale]

How high is Dirk rated?

His career average is 22.4 points 8.6 rebounds while shooting 47% from the field 38% from 3 point and 87% from free throw. Meanwhile playing 36 minutes and almost averaging 3 assists a game over the course of 10 seasons.

The guy has been quite good to the say the least. Surely he is not best defender but still the guy is good.

The stats speak for themselves.

No, all you did was cite exactly why he was overrated. Yes, nice stats, but those stats don't cite how many times his team his underachieved or how many big moments he has failed to show up in.

Nowitzki is a very very good player, but he was not MVP worthy and he is not "superstar of a team" worthy.

Now you reply and say "well, he led his team to the Finals" and I say "yea, in a year where everything fell perfectly into place for them (aka, Duncan having plantar fascitis, the Lakers being down, etc.) and they still choked it away in legendary fashion (13 point lead with 5 minutes to go and a 2 game lead on the Heat...they blew that and were swept the rest of the way).

I don't blame Cuban too much for any of this, he had to take a shot with the guy he had. I just think Nowitzki's time is up.

I replied with his stats. Statistically there are quite a few that are better on paper. By any chance do you over rate him a bit as for as PG's go historically. He played extremely well in Phoenix's system. However he is pretty bad defensively and on Dallas played no where near the same as in Phoenix. Impressive stats no doubt but one of the best statsheets for a PG in history. Too much. Maybe in the top ten point guards if that. Keep in mind he has not won a championship and probably wont in the near future.

The Phoenix years are showed by those statistics to be incredible years. He is averaging 18ppg and over 10 assists.

Your right, his Dallas years were nothing too special. That "among the best PG statsheets of all time" was a little hyperbole, but then again, I still would like to see if he is not among the top 15 PG's statswise. I'm too lazy to look that up right now to be honest

And I don't really think much of Nash on a historical basis, I just think he is better than Pierce during this last decade


@redfusion, and I'm saying that MVP did not belong to Nowitzki...he won it because his team won a bunch of games and he happened to be the best player on that team. I never really liked it when they awarded it that way.

And did you really compare Yao to Pierce based on all-star game selections? Really? You do know that Yao has missed months at a time and still been voted in, due to that gigantic voting population he has at all times behind him.

And how is Yao ever going to the HoF if he never sees the court? He is injured way to much and part of the comparison with Pierce has to take into account just how often they are out there.

Not to mention that the Rockets seemed to play better without Yao this year AND last, while without Pierce last year the Celtics were trash (they were on mediocre with him last year, but utterly terrible without him, if I recall). Maybe thats because the Rockets are used to Yao being out and have adjusted to it...

 

[dgfred]

Well where is the smack talk between Lakers and Spurs fans ???

Interesting series to me and I'm hoping the Spurs can take 'em down.

Celtics/Pistons looks like it will go to the wire too .

 

[Azale]

We need a Lakers fan to show up and start talking smack. I would think Kraznaya would be here, but after we shut him up during the Suns series AND the Hornets series, he won't say anything unless the Lakers have already won

 

[Darkness]

We need a Lakers fan to show up and start talking smack. I would think Kraznaya would be here, but after we shut him up during the Suns series AND the Hornets series, he won't say anything unless the Lakers have already won

Unfortunately that may even be thursday already...

The Spurs aren't giving Duncan enough help. TD's been great after a down series against the Hornets. He's averaging 23 point, 18 rebounds and 2 blocks a game, completely dominating Pau Gasol. The problem is that he's not getting enough help. Ginobili is (besides the game 3 performance) a shell of the player who won the 6th man award. Parker's been steady, but not spectacular. Bowen is doing what he can to limit Bryant, but th rest of the players just aren't good/fresh enough.

Besides the obviously great skills of Bryant and the Lakers, it seems like the age of the Spurs bench and the nagging injuries to Ginobili are going to cost the Spurs their chance to repeat as Champions.

 

[Azale]

Yea, and we still should have had overtime last night...if that was Kobe, I'm sure it would have been called

The NBA, where favoritism happens.

 

[Edward The Big]

I think its pretty common knowledge the NBA is pro westling. It's basically a poorly kept secret the league is rigged.

At the very least, many parts of it are rigged.

 

[Spartan117]

Hmm.... I dont understand why calls are so inconsistent. Sure the Lakers played better for the most part but the Spurs still could have pulled out a victory. Winning ugly is still a win and the series could have been 2-2. I think that should have been a continuation call with Barry going to the line for three FT's. The refs are usually quite lenient on continuation fouls.( A player is pushed and still could take 2 steps and score with the bucket counting.) But at the very least it should have been a normal foul.

Officials do not like to call fouls near the end of a close game. The idea being a foul shouldnt decide the game. But if the contact is obvious, which it was, then it should be called.

Then to make me feel worse, Crawford was officiating that game also.
Bad calls were made in game 1 with the game winning elbow to the chest Bryant shot.

Bring some form of instant replay or just completely revamp the entire officiating process. But sadly it wont happen because not enough people complain. I want to hear outrage

 

[pawpaw]

For all those complaining about the Barry call keep an open mind--just 3 seconds earlier the Lakers were screwed by the refs ( main reason the Spurs players are not complaining ) Fishers shot, on replay did hit the rim, then was knocked out of bounds. This means the Lakers would of got the ball with @ 5 seconds but NOT needing to shot because the shot clock would of been reset. So the Spurs would of been forced to foul and put a Laker on the line--he makes 2 and it doesn't matter what Barry does. He makes 1 and the best Barry can do is tie ( and theres no way he was in the act of shooting ) If your are going to complain, go both ways.

 

[Spartan117]

For all those complaining about the Barry call keep an open mind--just 3 seconds earlier the Lakers were screwed by the refs ( main reason the Spurs players are not complaining ) Fishers shot, on replay did hit the rim, then was knocked out of bounds. This means the Lakers would of got the ball with @ 5 seconds but NOT needing to shot because the shot clock would of been reset. So the Spurs would of been forced to foul and put a Laker on the line--he makes 2 and it doesn't matter what Barry does. He makes 1 and the best Barry can do is tie ( and theres no way he was in the act of shooting ) If your are going to complain, go both ways.

Yeah but that is not as obvious. The foul was clearly a foul.

I am not saying there is some conspiracy theory that the league wants the spurs to lose. But I hate the inconsistency of which fouls are called.

But then what about game one with Kobe elbow to Bowen's chest.

Many times the calls dont go both ways. Calls tend to favor the home team and star players.

Edit: On ESPN, Van Gundy, other sideline commentators said the league released a statement today saying that it was a foul.

And you know very well the officials are quite lenient on in the act of shooting fouls. A player's arm can be smacked and he could still take 2 steps and the bucket will still count. He was in the act of dribbling as the contact happen and then quickly threw the ball up. Most times that is called a shooting foul.

 

[pawpaw]

Many times the calls dont go both ways. Calls tend to favor the home team and star players.

This I totally agree with you on.

LA--SA

Game 1 +1 La
Game 2 +10 LA
Game 3 +6 SA
Game 4 +7 SA

+24 over 4 games is 6 extra foul shots for the home team per game. NBA experts say home court is worth 4-5 points--looks like they are right on target.

 

[pawpaw]

it seems like the age of the Spurs bench

Its a thin line between experience and old, the Lakers won with titles with veterans like Fox, Horry and Fisher coming off the bench. By their last title series these guys were now starters and were looking old and slow verus Detroit. Horry and Finley are so past their prime, S.A. could easly be a contender again next year win min. retooling of the bench.

 

[Spartan117]

Its a thin line between experience and old, the Lakers won with titles with veterans like Fox, Horry and Fisher coming off the bench. By their last title series these guys were now starters and were looking old and slow verus Detroit. Horry and Finley are so past their prime, S.A. could easly be a contender again next year win min. retooling of the bench.

Against Detroit they didnt have Fox anymore. Fisher was not a starter. Horry was also not a starter.

Harper I believe was the starter only the first year with Fisher the next 2. The last year Gary Payton was the starter. Devan George was the starter at least since their third title and started the next year with Karl Malone.

Finley is a decent option at back up however should not be the first option off the bench at SG. Horry is pretty much irrelevant as a player. Vaughn and Stoudamire are not valid options. Idouka, Kurt Thomas, and Oberto are decent. Although I dont really view oberto and thomas as starter material.

Spurs should try to get some athleticism instead of having a bunch of veteran players that are on the verge of retiring. Mix and match.

 

[pawpaw]

Against Detroit they didnt have Fox anymore. Fisher was not a starter. Horry was also not a starter.

Harper I believe was the starter only the first year with Fisher the next 2. The last year Gary Payton was the starter. Devan George was the starter at least since their third title and started the next year with Karl Malone.

Fox started 34 games then suffered his career ending injury.
Forgot they let Horry go that year-was not happy.
Malone only started 42 games
George started 48 games
Forgot about Payton, oh yeah he was useless, thats why.

Starting can be a relative thing, in 2002 Lindsy Hunter started most of the games at PG but Fisher averaged more minutes.

 

[Spartan117]

Fox started 34 games then suffered his career ending injury.
Forgot they let Horry go that year-was not happy.
Malone only started 42 games
George started 48 games
Forgot about Payton, oh yeah he was useless, thats why.

Starting can be a relative thing, in 2002 Lindsy Hunter started most of the games at PG but Fisher averaged more minutes.

Gary Payton on LA averaged nearly 16 points and 6 assists a game while playing and starting 82 games. Hardly useless.

Fox, Fisher, Horry were not starters in the final year. (George playing come playoff time and starting more games during the season) Their production hardly dropped because of age. Their numbers are relatively consistent the "championship years". Fox and Fisher's numbers drop more as a result of Karl Malone and Gary Payton playing rather their own "diminishing" abilities.

 

[pawpaw]

Gary Payton on LA averaged nearly 16 points and 6 assists a game while playing and starting 82 games. Hardly useless.

Fox, Fisher, Horry were not starters in the final year. (George playing come playoff time and starting more games during the season) Their production hardly dropped because of age. Their numbers are relatively consistent the "championship years". Fox and Fisher's numbers drop more as a result of Karl Malone and Gary Payton playing rather their own "diminishing" abilities.

Did you actually read the post you replied to?

EDIT: we are actually crisscrossing 2002 & 2005 posts and answers

Fox did start 34 games because the stats SAY he started 34 games. He also only played 34 games because he got hurt.

I stated Fisher did NOT start but averaged more minutes than the starter did.

I stated I FORGOT they let Horry go during the off season.

And Payton spent the whole playoffs being burned by the opposing PG'S. If you average 16 PPG but give up 25 PPG you are useless.

 

[Azale]

The Spurs are not done...Parker is in his prime, Duncan is as well. Manu is the only one of the big three I am concerned with, but he is pretty well conditioned. Popovich is still around for a while, so this team will be bringing down the NBA's ratings in the playoffs for more years to come

We never repeat anyway, I'm ecstatic enough to close the door on the Suns and beat the "up and coming" Hornets. I still hope either the Pistons or Celtics crush the Lakers though

 

[dgfred]

The Spurs are not done...Parker is in his prime, Duncan is as well. Manu is the only one of the big three I am concerned with, but he is pretty well conditioned. Popovich is still around for a while, so this team will be bringing down the NBA's ratings in the playoffs for more years to come

We never repeat anyway, I'm ecstatic enough to close the door on the Suns and beat the "up and coming" Hornets. I still hope either the Pistons or Celtics crush the Lakers though

I'm with you all the way Azale on the Laker crushing .

 

[pawpaw]

I'm with you all the way Azale on the Laker crushing .

Die, die!!!!

 

[pawpaw]

The Spurs are not done...Parker is in his prime, Duncan is as well. Manu is the only one of the big three I am concerned with, but he is pretty well conditioned. Popovich is still around for a while, so this team will be bringing down the NBA's ratings in the playoffs for more years to come

Spur starters are fine, they just need to retool the bench. A couple of years ago a veteran bench was O.K. with the starters being younger but now that the starters are vets they need some young legs of the bench.

The Spurs are in decent shape cap wise--who's a mid-talent free agent this year? ( good 6th/7th man types )--See people like Duhon, Najera, Dixon & Pietrus available--decent talent,cheap, young and good for 15-20 minutes a game