2018 U.S election

[Lexicus]

Well, yeah, but we aren't necessarily all limiting the conversation to people that you would describe as a left wing loon.

I know, and you just spoiled my oblique approach to precisely this conversation!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Preemptive conversational strike successful!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Primary turnout is not a clear representation of November turnout. Democrat money will converge behind the identified candidate and start driving for general democrat turnout, where the various candidates, even all taken together, had a lot less money to work with and were far more narrowly targeted in their efforts. Keep in mind that Hillary Clinton(!) beat Trump in your district. If she could carry it a generic democrat without thirty years of accumulated GOP attack baggage certainly should be able to carry it.

I know, I pointed out the Hillary thing in my own post. And I hope you are right; I just worry at how handily she won this primary. It wasn't even close - but yeah the field was fragmented and the Democrats haven't gone all-in yet so maybe things will be better in the general election.

Random aside: I actually voted for some socialist candidates for this primary.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I know, I pointed out the Hillary thing in my own post. And I hope you are right; I just worry at how handily she won this primary. It wasn't even close - but yeah the field was fragmented and the Democrats haven't gone all-in yet so maybe things will be better in the general election.

Random aside: I actually voted for some socialist candidates for this primary.

The thing to keep in mind is that big party money and effort is pretty much banned from primaries when there are multiple candidates. The incumbent has party backing, so the incumbent did well against a field that had no party backing.

I nominally backed the Democrat that ran in my district two years ago, but never really looked at his competitors...other than some late game attack ads she ran against my guy. He came in third, so now I have taken a look at the democratic party candidate and can see that I probably would have backed her if I'd looked earlier. Time to campaign. The primary did its job.

 

[civvver]

The governor's race in Michigan should be pretty interesting this year. Front runners for republican spot are the attorney general Bill Schuette and Lt. Gov. Brian Calley. Either might get dinged in the real election though from the fallout from Flint water crisis. Schuette is kind of a hard ass and some think his prosecution of those involved in the Flint crises is political. Brian Calley may need to distance himself from the current administration since many people directly blame current governor Snyder for it. Other than that Snyder was pretty well liked. He gets a lot of credit with helping to revamp Michigan's business culture and fixed some weird business tax laws. The roads are still awful and our schools are declining though.

The democrats only have two guys, one is an Indian businessman who I think sounds just like a republican to me and the other is Abdul El-Sayed who has some really drastic ideas about welfare and education including wanting free college tuition for families making less than 100k a year and single payer health care throughout the state. Sounds a lot like Bernie Sanders. The sad part is he won't have any shot of winning because he is a Muslim. There are some pretty big Muslim pockets in south east Michigan, including Dearborn which is around 30% Arab american families, but outside of south east Michigan almost the whole state is white Christians who will never vote for the guy. I think they would much sooner vote for a black woman than a devout Muslim.

 

[Zkribbler]

Maine is moving towards a ranking system of voting. I see two big advantages. One, campaigning will become more civil because candidates will be wary of alienating 2nd-and-3rd choice voters. Two, voting for a third-party candidate will no longer be "wasting your vote."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/maine-new-way-electing-politicians_us_5b16fe45e4b0734a99386f47

Maine Is About To Try Out A New Way Of Electing Politicians
For the first time, people across the state can rank the candidates they want to represent them in the general election.


Mark Eves wants to be the next governor of Maine, but in May he did something unusual for a candidate actively seeking office: He told voters who his second choice would be.

Betsy Sweet, the fellow Democrat Eaves said was his second choice, returned the favor and said Eaves would be her second choice.

Politicians in primary races often endorse their former opponents after they end their campaigns, but the comments from Eves and Sweet have a much deeper significance ahead of Maine’s June 12 primaries. For the first time, people across the state won’t just choose one person to go on and represent them in the general election, but will get to rank the candidates in their preferred order.

Maine will be the first place to use the system, called ranked-choice voting, in statewide races this June (it’s already used in some local elections). The system kicks in for contests that have three or more candidates. Here’s how it works:

• Voters rank the candidates in their party’s primary in order of preference.
  
  
• If no candidate gets an outright majority, the candidate who got the fewest first-place votes is eliminated.
  
  
• The second-place votes of those who supported the eliminated candidate then get distributed to the remaining candidates.
  
  
• The process continues until one candidate gets more than 50 percent of the first-place votes and is declared the winner.
  

Maine Secretary of State
A sample ballot for the Maine Democratic primary indicating how voters can rank their choices instead of choosing just one.
Supporters of the new system say that giving voters more choices encourages politicians to appeal to a broader swath of the electorate, reducing extremism and polarization. They also say it makes races more competitive and gives voters more of a voice because they can choose the candidate they want ― even if that candidate doesn’t have much support ― without worrying that their ballot will be wasted.

Detractors say the system is confusing and potentially unconstitutional.

The system is particularly appealing in Maine, a state with a strong tradition of independent candidates who can affect the outcomes of races and lead to a winner receiving less than a majority of votes. Gov. Paul LePage (R) won in 2010 with just 38.2 percent of the vote and was re-elected in 2014 with 48.2 percent. As of March, the number of voters unenrolled in a party in Maine outnumbered those in a political party. In nine of the state’s 11 gubernatorial races, the winner has gotten less than 50 percent of the vote.

Eves, a former speaker of the Maine House of Representatives, says the new way of voting hasn’t changed much about the way he’s campaigning, but when he meets a voter whose mind is already made up in favor of someone else, he asks to be considered as a second choice.

“What I like about is you’re still in the game,” Eves said in an interview. “You’re still earning people’s votes. It might not be their first vote, but those second votes are going to be extraordinarily critical, so you still have any opportunity to persuade somebody to be [their] second-choice vote.”

What I like about is you’re still in the game. You’re still earning people’s votes. It might not be their first vote, but those second votes are going to be extraordinarily critical. Maine gubernatorial candidate Mark Eves, a Democrat
The seven Democrats and four Republicans vying to be the nominees of their respective parties have still exchanged plenty of political attacks. But candidates have to be more calculating and weigh the effectiveness of a counterattack that would potentially lose them the second-place votes of an opponent’s supporters.

Monica Castellanos, a spokeswoman for Adam Cote, another Democratic candidate for governor, said ranked-choice voting hadn’t really affected campaign strategy, because it’s unclear what impact it will have on the electorate.

“I think we just don’t know. We have nothing to compare it to,” she said.

Not everyone is a fan of ranked-choice voting.
While Democrats have embraced the new system, Republicans have opposed it. They say it’s confusing, and point to a provision in the Maine Constitution that says candidates for office only have to be elected by a plurality, not a majority.

Maine’s Supreme Judicial Court issued an advisory opinion in 2017 that, based on that constitutional provision, ranked-choice voting could not be used in general elections for state offices. Despite that opinion, the court issued a separate order this year instructing the state to use it in its primary elections.


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Maine Secretary of State
A sample ballot for the Republican gubernatorial primary in Maine.
Republicans have fought hard to block the new system in court, saying Democrats are pushing the measure to ensure that a conservative governor can’t get elected to office. And even Democrats in other states have opposed a ranked-choice system. California Gov. Jerry Brown (D) blocked its wider use, saying ranked-choice voting is “overly complicated and confusing” and “deprives voters of genuinely informed choice.”

“I think you outright win these things. With ranked choice, you could be No. 2 and win. I don’t think that makes sense in an office where any degree of strength is required,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) told HuffPost.

None of the Republicans running for governor in Maine responded to HuffPost’s requests for comment. Garrett Mason, the state Senate’s majority leader and a Republican candidate for governor, told PBS in May that ranked-choice voting was illegal.

“The word plurality is very specific in Maine’s constitution. It means first past the post, whoever has the most votes wins, and that was deliberate and on purpose. I took an oath to uphold the constitution and the constitution is clear on this matter. It’s illegal,” Mason said.

“This was a way to make sure that Paul LePage never got elected again, or someone like Paul LePage never got elected again,” he added. “It’s mean-spirited, it is partisan.”

Will Maine try ranked-choice voting again?
Even as Maine becomes the first state to use ranked-choice voting statewide, it’s unclear whether it will continue to do so after the June election. When Maine voters approved a referendum to use ranked-choice voting in 2016, lawmakers voted to delay implementing it until 2021, citing concerns that it conflicted with the state’s constitution. But the law also said that if the state failed to amend the constitution by 2021 to accommodate ranked-choice voting, implementing the new system would be postponed indefinitely. Republicans sought to block using the system in the June 12 primary, but were rebuffed in both federal and state court.

Organizers were able to gather enough signatures to place a second referendum on the June ballot ― a “people’s veto” that would block the legislature’s move to delay implementing ranked-choice voting in other future elections.

The timing means that on June 12, Mainers will vote using the ranked-choice system while also voting on whether to keep using it. If the “people’s veto” passes, the system would be used in all primary elections with more than two candidates as well as in federal general elections. But absent a constitutional amendment, the system will not be used for general elections of state offices, because of the provision in the Maine Constitution that state races need to be decided by a plurality.

The unique timing also means ranked-choice voting advocates are engaged in a campaign to simultaneously teach people across Maine how ranked-choice voting works while also making a case to keep it. The Committee for Ranked Choice Voting and groups like the League of Women Voters have launched television advertisements and conducted mock elections on voters’ favorite beers and pizzas to show them how the system works.

Kyle Bailey, campaign manager for the Committee for Ranked Choice Voting, told HuffPost he hopes the attention surrounding the new system will encourage people to rethink the way they elect candidates.

“I don’t think most people are familiar with the election system they have because it’s probably been used for 50, 100, 150 years,” Bailey said. “I think there’s an opportunity with what’s happening in Maine to tell the story of ‘There are different ways to go about electing our politicians.’”

Even though ranked-choice voting is new, John Brautigam, a senior policy and legal adviser to the Maine chapter of the League of Women Voters, said he thinks it will increase trust in the electoral process amid heightened concerns about hacking and integrity.

“It will be a general boost to the whole faith in the democratic process,” Brautigam said. “People will look at voting in a new way and they will look at campaigns in a new way that sort of goes beyond the tribalism ...They’ll expect more out of candidates and they’ll expect more out of voters.”

 

[Arwon]

One, campaigning will become more civil

I wouldn't be so sure about that one to be honest, but it's a large improvement still.

 

[onejayhawk]

Somewhat related, the next election is after a census. One early estimate shows:

The gainers and losers are:

States Gaining Districts
Arizona +1 (from 9 to 10)
Calif. +1 (from 53 to 54)
Colorado +1 (from 7 to 8)
Florida +1 (from 27 to 28)
North Carolina +1 (from 13 to 14)
Oregon +1 (from 5 to 6)
Texas +3 (from 36 to 39)
Virginia +1 (from 11 to 12)

States Loosing Districts
Alabama -1 (from 7 to 6)
Illinois -1 (from 18 to 17)
Michigan -1 (from 14 to 13)
Minnesota -1 (from 8 to 7)
New York -1 (from 27 to 26)
Ohio -1 (from 16 to 15)
Pennsylvania -1 (from 18 to 17)
Rhode Island -1 (from 2 to 1)
West Virginia -1 (from 3 to 2)​

https://www.electiondataservices.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/NR_Appor14bwTablesMaps.pdf

Using the 2012 actual map, it's dead even. Trump and Clinton both gain 1.

J

 

[Zkribbler]

Very interesting. Thank you, J.

 

[metatron]

I know, and you just spoiled my oblique approach to precisely this conversation!

This is just in:
You are not supposed to care about or comment on elections outside your state. Because you don't vote in them.
I am not supposed to care at all, because i'm not American.
If we do, that's probably the result of nefarious motives.

*shrug*

Don't ask me. I'm just reporting this stuff.

Somewhat related, the next election is after a census. One early estimate shows:

The gainers and losers are:

States Gaining Districts
Arizona +1 (from 9 to 10)
Calif. +1 (from 53 to 54)
Colorado +1 (from 7 to 8)
Florida +1 (from 27 to 28)
North Carolina +1 (from 13 to 14)
Oregon +1 (from 5 to 6)
Texas +3 (from 36 to 39)
Virginia +1 (from 11 to 12)

States Loosing Districts
Alabama -1 (from 7 to 6)
Illinois -1 (from 18 to 17)
Michigan -1 (from 14 to 13)
Minnesota -1 (from 8 to 7)
New York -1 (from 27 to 26)
Ohio -1 (from 16 to 15)
Pennsylvania -1 (from 18 to 17)
Rhode Island -1 (from 2 to 1)
West Virginia -1 (from 3 to 2)​

https://www.electiondataservices.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/NR_Appor14bwTablesMaps.pdf

Using the 2012 actual map, it's dead even. Trump and Clinton both gain 1.

J

Two things:
1. Some newer projections show at least the possibility for Montana to gain a second seat.
Which isn't all that relevant but very cute.
2. You said "the next election". I am not sure what you meant to imply with that, but it may be incorrect.
Elections in census years still use the old data set. The first election affected by the 24th census will be the 2022 mid terms.


PS:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/us-senate-2018.606130/
What ever happened to that thread?
I liked that thread.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Very interesting. Thank you, J.

Thing I found interesting about it...they list more states as gaining a seat than they list as losing a seat, so basic mathematics should have told them to recheck their data. I just wrote it off as yet another top notch source provided by @onejayhawk.

 

[Zkribbler]

, so basic mathematics should have told them to recheck their data. @onejayhawk.

It's not "data," it's a preliminary estimate. A difference of 1 is not a big deal.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's not "data," it's a preliminary estimate. A difference of 1 is not a big deal.

If your estimation method produces a result that actually cannot happen, get a new one. Even at a preliminary stage.

 

[Commodore]

My prediction for the 2018 midterms is no change in the Senate in terms of numbers. Some seats will flip but ultimately it will stay at 51 Republicans, 47 Democrats and 2 Independents. As for the House, I think the Democrats will lose two seats from what they have now (they currently have 198, and they will drop to 196) and the Republicans will end with 239 seats.

My method for arriving at this prediction was based on a combination of "current" (as current as I could manage to find) polling data and the Cook PVI for each district.

This prediction may look bad for the Democrats, but while putting it together, I saw some warning signs for the Republicans that they would be wise to not ignore if they want to keep winning elections. The biggest one being that Democrats are really starting to make some gains in traditionally red districts. This can be easily seen in Arizona, but it's also happening in other states too like Texas, Florida, and Pennsylvania. Especially Pennsylvania with the redrawing of the districts. And while it does seem like Republicans are making some gains in traditionally blue areas, they aren't nearly as dramatic or widespread as the gains the Democrats are making. So while it may look like the Democrats are going to lose in the short term, they are certainly going to win in the long term unless the Republicans can do something to stop their spread into Republican strongholds.

 

[AdrienIer]

As for the House, I think the Democrats will lose two seats from what they have now

That's very odd. 2016 was a good turnout year for republicans, and 2018 will likely be a good turnout year for democrats. Current polling has democrats winning by 6-7 points, which I'm not sure is really going to happen but it's the only number we have. Given the number of republican incumbents retiring, and the number of R+5 districts at play, wouldn't it be more likely that Dems gain a dozen seats overall ?

 

[Kyriakos]

Not entirely on topic (but surely not that off topic either) :

Given i am not familiar with the US system, will Bernie (afaik he is to run as independent?) actually form some kind of party for the next elections? I do know the 2018 are just midterms, but will there be anything like this?
I suppose that he will only run in 2020, but just asking

 

[AdrienIer]

Not entirely on topic (but surely not that off topic either) :

Given i am not familiar with the US system, will Bernie (afaik he is to run as independent?) actually form some kind of party for the next elections? I do know the 2018 are just midterms, but will there be anything like this?
I suppose that he will only run in 2020, but just asking

Bernie's senate seat is at play, so he will be reelected in Vermont in november. Some left leaning democrats have won democratic primaries and will compete in the general election as well, but that doesn't constitute a political party (they will represent the democratic party)

 

[Commodore]

That's very odd. 2016 was a good turnout year for republicans, and 2018 will likely be a good turnout year for democrats. Current polling has democrats winning by 6-7 points, which I'm not sure is really going to happen but it's the only number we have. Given the number of republican incumbents retiring, and the number of R+5 districts at play, wouldn't it be more likely that Dems gain a dozen seats overall ?

It's certainly possible. I'm not going to say my predictions are ironclad. However, I still think Republicans are energized to get out and vote specifically because the Democrats are energized as well. Republicans are deathly afraid of losing control of Congress, even if it's just losing control of one house of Congress.

Plus, that 6 or 7 point margin is based on overall national polls. I tend to ignore national polls for House elections,because those elections are decided at the district level. And when you go district by district, the Republicans are still polling decently well. Of course, that's going off numbers I looked at a few days ago. Come October and November, those numbers could tell a completely different story.

 

[onejayhawk]

That's very odd. 2016 was a good turnout year for republicans, and 2018 will likely be a good turnout year for democrats. Current polling has democrats winning by 6-7 points, which I'm not sure is really going to happen but it's the only number we have. Given the number of republican incumbents retiring, and the number of R+5 districts at play, wouldn't it be more likely that Dems gain a dozen seats overall ?

This is a common statement, but I don't buy the usual reasoning. At this point, there is no reason to believe either party has an edge in turnout.

If the current polling is accurate, the Democrats could win 30 seats in the House and gain the right to force an impeachment vote. It is a very big "if", but it could happen. I am leary of polling this early. Some of the polls are not even of voters, just people of voting age. This is notoriously unreliable. Likely Voter polls are not yet available from multiple sources. Democrats were giddy about one poll that showed a 17% margin. Republicans were hyped because one poll had them with a 1% lead. They are both shooting at the moon.

Commodore is making a solid point. The Cook data is a solid way to judge the ground under the candidates, so to speak. The head to head matters, but it good to know if one of them is fighting uphill.

The only thing we know for a fact is who is running for re-election and which seats are open.

J

 

[Commodore]

Given i am not familiar with the US system, will Bernie (afaik he is to run as independent?) actually form some kind of party for the next elections? I do know the 2018 are just midterms, but will there be anything like this?

I don't know if it will be Sanders specifically, but there is hope for third parties in the future if the last election is anything to go on. In the 2016 election, while still not coming close to winning any state except Utah (more on that later), third party candidates overall gained an increased percentage of the vote in every state. I think that shows the American people might be getting fed up with the two party system and want something different to vote for. If that is the case and the trend of third parties getting a larger percentage of the vote continues, they could become a viable political force in the near future. This is especially true with a number of states considering changes to their voting laws which would create a more favorable environment for third parties to compete in.

Now as for Utah: I think a third party presidential candidate could actually win Utah in 2020. Why? Consider this: In 2012 third party candidates in total only managed to garner 2.4% of the vote in Utah while Romney got 72.8% and Obama got 24.8%. In 2016, Hillary only got 27.5%, which is to be expected since Democrats aren't exactly popular in Utah. However, Trump only managed to get 45.5% of the vote to win the state. That means in the span of a single election cycle, support in Utah for third party candidates jumped from 2.4% to 27% which was the most dramatic gain third party candidates made in any state in the 2016 election. The reason? Mormons in Utah don't like Trump. And since Trump is likely to be the Republican candidate again in 2020, I doubt he's going to get much more support in Utah than he did in 2016. So if the right third party candidate comes along (perhaps Romney runs as an independent), that candidate might just be able to steal Utah.

That would be a significant political victory for third party candidates, even though it still wouldn't bring them anywhere close to the presidency. The last time a third party candidate won a state was 1968, so winning a state again in 2020, especially in light of the increasing support for third party candidates, could embolden more people to actually vote third party. Before you know it, they go from winning one state, to maybe winning two or three, so and and so forth until we finally get a president that doesn't have an R or D in front of their name.

Even if it doesn't lead to a third party victory, a third party candidate taking a state could serve as a wake-up call to both Democrats and Republicans that the American people are getting fed up with them and their increasing polarization. Increased support for third party candidates could force the Democrats and Republicans back towards the center in order to win back the increasing number of disillusioned voters.