2020 US Election (Part One)

[Sommerswerd]

I think it would be an interesting experiment to open a factory deep in some red state and see just how badly you could get away with abusing the workers. My guess is that in the final analysis China wouldn't look all that bad. You'll never escape the reality that a "living wage" is never going to be the same expense in the third world as it is in the US, but I'll bet you could get away with running the same sort of "damn the labor code, full speed ahead" operations that are being run in places that outright don't bother with a labor code.

No need to go "deep" into some red state. When I drove a delivery truck in the Atlanta-Metro area I would regularly deliver to full blown sweatshops operating right in the city and/or ten, twenty miles outside the city. Although they did have them out in the rural areas too.

I hope you understand I mean no offense when I say this isn't much of a Eureka moment

Hey! A Civ 6 reference!

 

[Broken_Erika]

There's so many holes in the ‘wall’ idea that it's like a colander.

Build the Border Colander!

 

[FriendlyFire]

Their motives dont matter if the wall saves lives
I dont support the wall, but I want to remove existing walls too. If we add the wall to the current system we will save lives. If we oppose the wall more people will die. Some taxes are theft, some taxes become subsidies to corporations in return for bribes.

Yes divert 1 Billion in funds from Army Corp of Engineers disaster prevention works to build the wall will save lives
I salute all the Red States for their sacrifices on the Alter of Trump

 

[Berzerker]

The border isn't a disaster?

 

[Takhisis]

Not unless you're far enough into ‘states' rights’ territory to uphold the old idea that the US should have conquered all of Mexico rather than the part north of the Rio Grande.

 

[Berzerker]

wall wouldn't be as long

looks like Biden has more women trouble, advantage Sanders

 

[metalhead]

I suspect the quick Googling produced an under-representation. That could just be a different reading of "without documentation" though. If you take it as "job given to a non-citizen who cannot document government approval to work" you will get a much different number than if you take it as "job given without collecting the documentation the government requires employers to collect." I think there are a whole lot of US citizens filling "undocumented worker" positions.

A million and a half undocumented workers is a lot for one specific part of one labor sector. When you consider how much factory and supply chain and building/trade and retail food work is also done by undocumented people, the estimate seems pretty reasonable. It was based specifically on surveys of undocumented people, so there was a wide range estimate of about 250,000 on either side of that number; I just picked the middle for brevity's sake.

Their motives dont matter if the wall saves lives

Yes but there are far more effective ways to spend money saving lives. So touting the life-saving ability of The Wall is a dumb last resort argument, when it is just as inefficient at saving lives as it is accomplishing any other goal.

 

[Broken_Erika]

The border isn't a disaster?

That would the Immigration system in general.

 

[metalhead]

The border isn't a disaster. That's just propaganda.

 

[onejayhawk]

I don't think most of the people screaming for the wall care about reducing Mexican deaths in the desert.

If I thought for a moment you were serious, I would be very disappointed.

I might grant that it is not the first priority, but it matters. Drug smuggling and human trafficking also matter.

The border isn't a disaster. That's just propaganda.

It is a disaster if you believe in the rule of law.

J

 

[metalhead]

It is a disaster if you believe in the rule of law.

The rule of law does not require strict enforcement against misdemeanor offenses, nor does it require extraordinary measures to enforce or prevent such offenses from being committed.

Look anywhere in society. You will see a constant stream of people committing misdemeanor offenses, free from any enforcement or prevention mechanisms.

In other words, the "rule of law" argument is either completely ignorant, or bad faith bullcrap. Are you sure this is one you want to be making?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It is a disaster if you believe in the rule of law.

J

Misdemeanor crossings making the border "a disaster" means that every highway in the country is a disaster (speeders), and every city street is a disaster (jaywalkers). Or do you and the rest of the Trumpists just believe in the law ruling brown people?

 

[rah]

speeders are ok since most of them are white and not poor.

 

[Berzerker]

Yes but there are far more effective ways to spend money saving lives. So touting the life-saving ability of The Wall is a dumb last resort argument, when it is just as inefficient at saving lives as it is accomplishing any other goal.

We have 3 options: 1) the wall 2) no walls 3) the current system. We aint doin 2, neither party will support tearing the walls down and the current system is why people are dying in the desert. The walls we have now are proving efficient at driving people into the desert, better enforcement in the desert should motivate safer routes into the country.

The disaster is not the rule of law, its people dying in the desert trying to get around our walls.

 

[metalhead]

You could spend 1/1000th of the cost of a wall to ensure people crossing the desert have access to water, food, and shelter.

There are options besides walls, which will save a lot more lives. If life-saving is what you are actually interested in, I don't know why you want to spend money building a wall instead of on things which will actually save lives.

 

[Berzerker]

You could spend 1/1000th of the cost of a wall to ensure people crossing the desert have access to water, food, and shelter.

There are options besides walls, which will save a lot more lives. If life-saving is what you are actually interested in, I don't know why you want to spend money building a wall instead of on things which will actually save lives.

II dont want to encourage more people to cross the desert

 

[Traitorfish]

It is a disaster if you believe in the rule of law.

So undocumented migrants are fine, the problem is specifically improper border-crossings?

 

[metalhead]

II dont want to encourage more people to cross the desert

Oh, well in that case the solution is to simply let them come through ports of entry. I don't understand where a wall comes into play.

 

[Berzerker]

the walls we have now are the result of people not coming thru ports of entry

 

[metalhead]

the walls we have now are the result of people not coming thru ports of entry

Because they aren't allowed. If you want to save lives you can simply let them come in through ports of entry instead of the desert. Then nobody has to die trying to come here.