2020 US Election (Part One)

[Timsup2nothin]

lmao, I basically skimmed over it but the sheer arrogance of saying Bernie is widely detested. Bernie is the one setting the ******* pace for the 2020 primaries, everyone is taking cues from his 2016 run, all of the policy ideas are his or spinoffs, he is #1 in small donations. You couldn't be more wrong here Tim.

Bernie is the democratic candidate least likely to get a single vote from the right, and most likely to lose votes even to Trump in the center. You mistake the fanaticism of those who do support him for an indication about those who don't.

 

[cardgame]

He did better than Clinton in the states that matter, and that's really the only bar that needs to be topped after we've seen what a disaster Trump has been.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

He did better than Clinton in the states that matter, and that's really the only bar that needs to be topped after we've seen what a disaster Trump has been.

He did better than Clinton in the primaries, which has no direct bearing on how he'd have done in the general. You can't win the general with half the Democrat vote, even if it's a slightly bigger than half half. Hopefully even the Bernie babies will recognize this time around that stopping the GOP is the critical issue and the rest are niceties, not necessities.

 

[Lexicus]

He did better than Clinton in the primaries, which has no direct bearing on how he'd have done in the general. You can't win the general with half the Democrat vote, even if it's a slightly bigger than half half. Hopefully even the Bernie babies will recognize this time around that stopping the GOP is the critical issue and the rest are niceties, not necessities.

Hopefully the centrist zombies will realize you can't stop the GOP by electing people who want to compromise with it

Bernie is the democratic candidate least likely to get a single vote from the right, and most likely to lose votes even to Trump in the center. You mistake the fanaticism of those who do support him for an indication about those who don't.

Yeah, like case in point, we'll sure stop the GOP by building an electoral coalition dependent on votes from people who vote for the GOP

 

[Berzerker]

Seems Bernie is detested by much of the corporate media but I dont see that even among right wingers much less centrists. There are people who have a visceral reaction to 'socialists' but Bernie's also got a populist bent to him which is why he did better than Clinton in the rust belt. Among the Democrat leaders he has the better persona, Biden's got that going for him too but he's just too far gone mentally. I figured Bernie was done after his heart 'attack' but he rebounded well and they apparently got his problem solved.

 

[Ironsided]

I'm thinking it was probably life experience. Try it sometime.

I was a Liberal in my youth. Voted liberal party in my first election, aged 19. Life experience and a somewhat functioning and mobile intellect made me a social democrat. Having a change of mind is natural and healthy. Actively supporting a centrist establishment candidate like Hillary agains Trump is unfortunate but totally understandable. Keeping on, using the same arguments and strategy that failed last time against the same opposition is not. It’s bordering insanity (at least according to Einstein).

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I was a Liberal in my youth. Voted liberal party in my first election, aged 19. Life experience and a somewhat functioning and mobile intellect made me a social democrat. Having a change of mind is natural and healthy. Actively supporting a centrist establishment candidate like Hillary agains Trump is unfortunate but totally understandable. Keeping on, using the same arguments and strategy that failed last time against the same opposition is not. It’s bordering insanity (at least according to Einstein).

I actually think the closest analogy to Hillary this time around is Bernie. The whole "Trump is so terrible even a deeply flawed candidate can be jammed down the oppositions throat" strategy didn't work, so I'm sorta hoping we avoid trying it again.

 

[Berzerker]

Nominating a corporate warmonger gave Trump a chance in 2016, a centrist who will deal with foreign policy and trade along more populist lines should have little trouble beating Trump. Even a left winger like Sherrod Brown can win statewide in Ohio.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Nominating a corporate warmonger gave Trump a chance in 2016, a centrist who will deal with foreign policy and trade along more populist lines should have little trouble beating Trump. Even a left winger like Sherrod Brown can win statewide in Ohio.

I'm going to seriously answer here instead of letting your past posts influence me.

You may very well have this "corporate warmonger" thing at the very top of your list, but the vast majority of USians don't really give a rip about it. The Bush-whacker broke the GOP by crashing the economy, the horrors of his foreign adventurism didn't do it. Have you not noticed that for all of your moaning about the poor results in Libya, or Egypt, or wherever, the most common response in the US to those subjects isn't "yeah, we need to clean up our act and quit doing such crappy things," it's "yeah, shoulda just glassed them right from the gate...not too late though."

 

[Ironsided]

You really are just making up your “reality” as you go Tim. Very few American want to have any part in “glassing” innocent people. The whole thing about life experience was just a projection of insecurities I suppose.

 

[Estebonrober]

I'm going to seriously answer here instead of letting your past posts influence me.

You may very well have this "corporate warmonger" thing at the very top of your list, but the vast majority of USians don't really give a rip about it. The Bush-whacker broke the GOP by crashing the economy, the horrors of his foreign adventurism didn't do it. Have you not noticed that for all of your moaning about the poor results in Libya, or Egypt, or wherever, the most common response in the US to those subjects isn't "yeah, we need to clean up our act and quit doing such crappy things," it's "yeah, shoulda just glassed them right from the gate...not too late though."

This, sadly most americans do not really care about the warmongering. They do care about that economy though. They also care about the lopsided nature of the economy and how much corporations get a way with, so the corporate part certainly had an effect. Which is why Buttigieg has little chance to get out of the primary imo. He is entirely too corporate for the liberal base.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You really are just making up your “reality” as you go Tim. Very few American want to have any part in “glassing” innocent people. The whole thing about life experience was just a projection of insecurities I suppose.

LOL...I'm guessing from your comments about voting "liberal" and then switching to "social democrat" that just like with @Kyriakos I'm dealing with some European who likes to believe they know more about USians than USians do. Have fun with that, but remember that @Kyriakos is likeable and it's still annoying when he does it.

 

[Ironsided]

I’m Swedish and in Sweden. I have close family in Connecticut and while I may not know what you and your uncle in Fartwhistle Nevada talks about specifically and personally I have a decent grasp in general. And we do get a fairly even view with what's available in the US media. Sometimes in a less corporate package like through our extensive public service channels.

 

[Traitorfish]

He did better than Clinton in the primaries, which has no direct bearing on how he'd have done in the general. You can't win the general with half the Democrat vote, even if it's a slightly bigger than half half. Hopefully even the Bernie babies will recognize this time around that stopping the GOP is the critical issue and the rest are niceties, not necessities.

Left-wing voters are bad because, if a moderate Democrats win, they will sit out the election and let the Republicans win.

Left-wing voters are also bad because, if Bernie wins, moderate Democrats will sit out the election and let the Republicans win.

Why do I feel like the deck has been stacked?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I’m Swedish and in Sweden. I have close family in Connecticut and while I may not know what you and your uncle in Fartwhistle Nevada talks about specifically and personally I have a decent grasp in general. And we do get a fairly even view with what's available in the US media. Sometimes in a less corporate package like through our extensive public service channels.

Is everyone in Sweden a rude little arrogant prig? Or is it just Swedes from podunkeries that are smaller than Fartwhistle? Oh, hey, that's like all of Sweden put together, right? Since when you say "Fartwhistle" you're actually talking about LA.

 

[Berzerker]

I'm going to seriously answer here instead of letting your past posts influence me.

You may very well have this "corporate warmonger" thing at the very top of your list, but the vast majority of USians don't really give a rip about it. The Bush-whacker broke the GOP by crashing the economy, the horrors of his foreign adventurism didn't do it. Have you not noticed that for all of your moaning about the poor results in Libya, or Egypt, or wherever, the most common response in the US to those subjects isn't "yeah, we need to clean up our act and quit doing such crappy things," it's "yeah, shoulda just glassed them right from the gate...not too late though."

She lost in '08, did her support for the Iraq War factor into the minds of primary voters? The economy isn't why Obama beat her. Did the economy hurt Clinton in 2016? Her sins are not limited to the wars she instigated, but also the policies that favor corporations over the little people, like trade deals that ship jobs abroad. Hell, she beat Sanders because the primaries were rigged in her favor, couldn't even win nomination without pissing off millions of Democrats.

The moaning you hear is coming from the wounded millions around the world left in her wake. 'Vote for the lesser evil' didn't work for the Democrats for that reason, they had the chance in their primaries and nominated a corporate warmonger instead who made Trump the lesser evil in a 2 way race. How do you ask people to vote for the lesser evil when your candidate is complicit in a half dozen foreign and domestic wars?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Left-wing voters are bad because, if a moderate Democrats win, they will sit out the election and let the Republicans win.

Left-wing voters are also bad because, if Bernie wins, moderate Democrats will sit out the election and let the Republicans win.

Why do I feel like the deck has been stacked?

Where are these moderate democrats who will sit out the election. I might offer a few less hours volunteering if the canvassing is for Bernie than I would for a better candidate, but I'm not sitting anything out, and I don't see any moderate Democrats saying they would either. I'll admit there is a problem with that in that I really ought to work harder if the nominee is weaker, but at the end of the day I am operating from "off to Belize" so I'm hard to motivate.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I think that most Americans are just tired of the Middle East and its ongoing, never ending problems. They want us out and hope it will just go away. Unless, they are evangelical Christians who need a war against Israel to trigger the Second Coming. Those are the dangerous ones.

 

[Traitorfish]

Where are these moderate democrats who will sit out the election. I might offer a few less hours volunteering if the canvassing is for Bernie than I would for a better candidate, but I'm not sitting anything out, and I don't see any moderate Democrats saying they would either. I'll admit there is a problem with that in that I really ought to work harder if the nominee is weaker, but at the end of the day I am operating from "off to Belize" so I'm hard to motivate.

You suggested that Bernie would only bring in about half of the usual Democratic vote. I took this to suggest that moderate Democrats would give him a pass. Did you have another scenario in mind?

 

[Berzerker]

Is everyone in Sweden a rude little arrogant prig? Or is it just Swedes from podunkeries that are smaller than Fartwhistle? Oh, hey, that's like all of Sweden put together, right? Since when you say "Fartwhistle" you're actually talking about LA.

I thought you were in Palmdale, that might be a step up from Barstow but Fartwhistle Nevada is just over the horizon