2020 US Election (Part One)

[Socrates99]

Yeah, if you think that the libertarian right wouldn't go to war for the sake of US corporations regardless of what they say, you're a dupe and fool (not that it matters because the likes of Rand Paul know they'll never be in power, ie, in a position where they have to follow through on their promises).

I guess I'm living in an alternate universe where Trump promised to commit war crimes on the GOP primary debate stage and received huge cheers. And where Trump has relaxed the rules of engagement for the US military and significantly increased civilian casualties over Obama.

I did say rhetoric. I'm no fool, I know Trump's just a con man and that it is idiotic to believe him and a lot of the same politicians I mentioned. Doesn't change the fact that a lot of his voters did believe him. It's the "supporters" we're talking about. A far as the libertarian politicians go, the War Powers resolution did pass. Sure rand Paul would probably bend over and approve a war in Venezuela to appease his Koch overlord but that's not reflective of the voters in general. Trying to label all right wingers as hawks is as dumb as believing anything Trump says.

 

[Lexicus]

Trying to label all right wingers as hawks is as dumb as believing anything Trump says.

That...isn't really what I was doing. But understand, to me this is a bit like saying "trying to label all right wingers as right wing is as dumb as believing anything Trump says." Hawkishness in one form or another is a constitutive element of right-wing politics.
And anyway in the post you originally quoted I was specifically talking about the white nationalist far right, not "all right wingers."

 

[Socrates99]

That...isn't really what I was doing. But understand, to me this is a bit like saying "trying to label all right wingers as right wing is as dumb as believing anything Trump says." Hawkishness in one form or another is a constitutive element of right-wing politics.
And anyway in the post you originally quoted I was specifically talking about the white nationalist far right, not "all right wingers."

People can be racist bigots and want foreign intervention to end at the same time. They just want it for more selfish reasons.

I'm just trying to get this straight. You think white nationalists support a Hindu Indian because of ties to Indian right wingers? You do realize that it's far more likely they'd hold that up and say "see we were right about brown people all along! They're infiltrating our government!"

Sometimes the motivations are actually what's on the surface.

 

[Lexicus]

You think white nationalists support a Hindu Indian because of ties to Indian right wingers?

No. I think it's likely that a lot of them "support" her because she's hot (disclaimer: she doesn't do that much for me, but I can see why people say that) but, if it came to it, would vote for Trump over her. I also think they can find common cause with her Islamophobia and her support of military dictatorships in the name of fighting the "war on terror."
Also, just btw, the Science of Identity Foundation is not Hinduism.

Sometimes the motivations are actually what's on the surface.

Exactly: they "support" her because she's hot The motivations are actually what's on the surface.

Oh and uh, since you brought her up, you may be interested to know that she has said “When it comes to the war against terrorists, I'm a hawk", so you citing white nationalist support of her is really just proving my point.

 

[Socrates99]

Ilhan Omar and AOC are far more attractive but they dont hesitate to **** on them.

 

[Lexicus]

Ilhan Omar and AOC are far more attractive but they dont hesitate to **** on them.

Yes, my point is that Tulsi is actually a right-winger using "progressive" branding to bamboozle people and white nationalists sense this.

 

[Tristan_C]

Ilhan Omar and AOC are far more attractive but they dont hesitate to **** on them.

Ilhan Omar looks okay.

AOC looks good until she opens her mouth. At that point a number of different things go very wrong.

Tulsi looks great. On a scale of AOC to Ivanka, she's a 7.

 

[Socrates99]

Yes, my point is that Tulsi is actually a right-winger using "progressive" branding to bamboozle people and white nationalists sense this.

Ooooh that's why she endorsed Bernie in 2016, because she's a right winger. Makes sense.

Ilhan Omar looks okay.

AOC looks good until she opens her mouth. At that point a number of different things go very wrong.

Tulsi looks great. On a scale of AOC to Ivanka, she's a 7.

Point proven.

 

[Lexicus]

Ooooh that's why she endorsed Bernie in 2016, because she's a right winger. Makes sense.
Point proven.

Yeah it's not like Bernie drew any support from right-wingers, there were zero voters who went from Bernie to Trump after all

 

[Takhisis]

Yeah, if you think that the libertarian right wouldn't go to war for the sake of US corporations regardless of what they say, you're a dupe and fool (not that it matters because the likes of Rand Paul know they'll never be in power, ie, in a position where they have to follow through on their promises).

We said that once with Sarah Palin, and then there was Romney and then Trump…

I guess I'm living in an alternate universe where Trump promised to commit war crimes on the GOP primary debate stage and received huge cheers. And where Trump has relaxed the rules of engagement for the US military and significantly increased civilian casualties over Obama.

*nathanfilliondoubletake.jpg*

 

[Socrates99]

Yeah it's not like Bernie drew any support from right-wingers, there were zero voters who went from Bernie to Trump after all

WTH does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Some Bernie voters voted Trump, tulsi endorsed Bernie, therefore she's right wing? That's fudging stupid.

All three, trump, Bernie and Tulsi have something in common and it's not right/left. They're anti establishment. Bernie's an independent, Tulsi stepped down from the DNC to endorse Bernie and call out the DNCs corruption, Trump's...Trump. of course they have crossover appeal to voters who hate the establishment in both parties and those voters have reasons other than "she's hawt.." being hot didn't save Katie Hill.

 

[Lexicus]

WTH does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Some Bernie voters voted Trump, tulsi endorsed Bernie, therefore she's right wing? That's ******* stupid.

My point is that Tulsi endorsing Bernie in no way proves she isn't right-wing.

 

[Takhisis]

All three, trump, Bernie and Tulsi have something in common and it's not right/left. They're anti establishment.

Yeah, well, both the Nazis and the Allies of WWII were anti-Communist.

 

[Socrates99]

My point is that Tulsi endorsing Bernie in no way proves she isn't right-wing.

Her vote record does FFS. She's not as far left as Bernie but definitely further than the vast majority of congress.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Buttigieg is polling nationally at 7%. Obviously he isn't going to be the nomination, regardless of the clownship at Cnn, NBC etc.

Too early to say that. Prior to the first primaries the "obscure" candidates don't have enough name recognition to score in polling. But if he manages a strong showing in one or more early primaries the name recognition will come.

I hate to say "I told you so," awwww, nobody's gonna believe that. I freakin' LOVE saying I told you so...here.

 

[Kyriakos]

I hate to say "I told you so," awwww, nobody's gonna believe that. I freakin' LOVE saying I told you so...here.

Awesome, so when is the actual primary vote happening?
Or should we just say he won

Given he isn't having any popular policies, I am not seeing why you think he is going to be the nomination. He is basically a media-made celebrity, much like Trump.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Awesome, so when is the actual primary vote happening?
Or should we just say he won

Given he isn't having any popular policies, I am not seeing why you think he is going to be the nomination. He is basically a media-made celebrity, much like Trump.

Popular with who? Health insurance he supports public option, which is popular with pretty much everyone except the most extreme progressives who are demanding "not optional, take it and like it." He supports universal background checks for gun purchases, which is popular with pretty much everyone, much to the NRA's dismay. He wants to address cliamte change, which is popular with everybody except the most extreme science denying dingbats. He supports a pathway to citizenship for the undocumented, which is popular with all the left and about half the right.

I'm not predicting he gets the nomination, I just wasn't dismissing him out of hand back when you wanted to, and I'm certainly not dismissing him now. The guy might be the next Bill Clinton, except Clinton's surprise victory that put him in the race was New Hampshire, not Iowa.

 

[Kyriakos]

Popular with who? Health insurance he supports public option, which is popular with pretty much everyone except the most extreme progressives who are demanding "not optional, take it and like it." He supports universal background checks for gun purchases, which is popular with pretty much everyone, much to the NRA's dismay. He wants to address cliamte change, which is popular with everybody except the most extreme science denying dingbats. He supports a pathway to citizenship for the undocumented, which is popular with all the left and about half the right.

I'm not predicting he gets the nomination, I just wasn't dismissing him out of hand back when you wanted to, and I'm certainly not dismissing him now. The guy might be the next Bill Clinton, except Clinton's surprise victory that put him in the race was New Hampshire, not Iowa.

When is the primary at Iowa going to take place?
I am suspicious of all this media hype - is all. At least when there is some vote, we will have something of more substance to speak about.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

When is the primary at Iowa going to take place?
I am suspicious of all this media hype - is all. At least when there is some vote, we will have something of more substance to speak about.

Well, it was actually me that was pointing out that it was way to early to dismiss Buttigieg out of hand since the Iowa caucus is still a bit more than two months away.

The critical piece of information though is name recognition. That's baked in for the other contenders. No one in Iowa between now and February is going to suddenly wake up one day saying "hey, have you ever heard of this Sanders fella?" Same for Biden, and maybe just slightly less so for Warren. And the same goes for nationally between now and November.

Sanders is a known commodity and the only way he is going to gain support is when Warren drops out. Nobody is going to "discover" him, because everyone already knows him. Nobody is going to suddenly come around because they find out that he is pro-whatever, because whatever he is in favor of everyone already knows he is in favor of it. Again, same for Warren and Biden.

But people are discovering Buttigieg every day...and if he wins in Iowa a whole lot of people will wake up the next day saying "Who is this guy? What is he standing for?" That gives him something that the others all lack...potential. If Biden takes a beating in Iowa and NH he might drop out, and Buttigieg is the most likely choice for any Biden voter that has heard of him, and if he has two strong showings everyone will be hearing of him.

I think he has a legitimate shot.

 

[Camikaze]

The fundamental problem for Buttigieg is that he's the only candidate of the top four who needs to win Iowa. Biden, Sanders, and Warren will be fine without it - though Warren might be in trouble if she can't get either Iowa or New Hampshire. Buttigieg will be hoping that if Biden runs in 4th in Iowa and New Hampshire, lots of people start looking his way, but the stumbling block will be ensuring those people include voters in South Carolina. Otherwise Biden will still go into Super Tuesday with a fresh win under his belt. It's unclear who Buttigieg would prefer to win in South Carolina.

That could change, though, if Biden's fundraising doesn't pick up. Buttigieg will have a lot of money going into next year if his polling in Iowa keeps up, so he may be able to take advantage of his Iowa lead before he actually wins it. The other side of that coin is that if these polls turn out to be anomalies and he falls over the next couple of months, he could be thrown into the Harris 'has been' category.