2020 US Election (Part Two)
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Berzerker
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Obama recruited terrorists to Syria to overthrow the government and Trump banned refugees from the region as a result. They seem linked somehow...
If there is a deep state, wouldn't that also mean it was there during the Obama years?
And if so, why would Obama have to be part of the deep state? After all, the US didn't declare war on Syria under Obama, while under Trump the US has allowed other states to invade it.
To an outsider it is pretty clear that Trump is only able to use 100 words to express virtually anything. Which doesn't mean the world suddenly became less complicated; it means the potus became vastly less complicated.
He doesn't get the middle east more - I recall his ridiculously dumb speech in Israel where he said stuff like "if you want a two-state solution you can have that. If you want a one-state solution you can have that".
The man is a cretin and corrupt to the bone.
And if so, why would Obama have to be part of the deep state? After all, the US didn't declare war on Syria under Obama, while under Trump the US has allowed other states to invade it.
To an outsider it is pretty clear that Trump is only able to use 100 words to express virtually anything. Which doesn't mean the world suddenly became less complicated; it means the potus became vastly less complicated.
He doesn't get the middle east more - I recall his ridiculously dumb speech in Israel where he said stuff like "if you want a two-state solution you can have that. If you want a one-state solution you can have that".
The man is a cretin and corrupt to the bone.
I know! Step one is keeping out the undesirables. Dude, everyone knows that Trump's proto-fascism can be justified by people willing to do so, it just takes some squinting. Trump publicly calls for a ban on muslims and then 'conveniently' is able to convince you that not helping refugees is the game-winning move.
Patine
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Another extremist, absolutist, binary, witch-hunting, and McCarthyist pronunciation. You do know these sort of declarations, regardless of the context, are a hallmark tactic that REAL Fascists use, right? Your mentality and viewpoint is, as I've pointed before, a direct "Fascist flipside," the same views and rhetoric, just reversed or otherwise sharply different in whose "targeted," and whose the "beneficiary." And, yes, I know well that one of your big defenses here is your lack of power - and THAT is complete mercy to the world, and I pray it stays that way, lest the hateful, absolutist, demographic-based, callous, and vitriolic bile and venom of @Cloud_Strife, create a monstrous atrocity engine that would absolutely DWARF anything Trump has done in office, just like others who share your viewpoints, mentality, and perspectives always tend to produce when they acquire true power. Your powerlessness is a blessing to the world!
Although I disagree with him about pretty much every domestic and economic issues (except physical currency remaining in circulation indefinitely, and retaining, and even regaining, effective purchasing power in regard to digital currency), Ron Paul, of all 21st Century Major Party Presidential Primary Candidates, had the absolute best military policy, and policy considering the secretive, criminal, and Unconstitutional "alphabet soup agencies," of them all - hands down!
Patine
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Infraction for trolling
Are you starting up with the McCarthyist witch-hunting, too, along with @Cloud_Strife and @Cutlass? Such people who run such ideological Inquisitions, like it seems those two, and now you, are starting, are no better than the worst of Trump's cronies, all-in-all.
Moderator Action: This is trolling. Knock it off. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
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Huh, you could just follow the conversation. Trump promised to go after muslims (shortly after lying about them) and then he did what he said what he was going to do. Step one of proto-fascism is to keep out (or subjugate, if local) the undesirables. In this case "muslims". Berzerker (expectedly) justified Trump's following his promises to his base.
Oh, and your writing AND argumentation is going to have to vastly improve before I'll care one whit about you comparing me (in scale, if not in scope) to Trump's cronies. Like, a lot of improvement. You've dulled your knife with your too constant attempts to identify my moral failings.
Patine
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Is Ulysses Grant a Fascist for his Chinese immigration ban?
Patine
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And whatever you may "care," I stand by what I've said. Thomas Winthrop and Joseph McCarthy certainly didn't "care," about the opinions of those criticizing them for their witch-hunting tactics and views on similar grounds - in fact, they disingenuously used that criticism to lump those critics, in public PR, with those they were waging such ideological Inquisition on. They were still vile and despicable individuals, whom no one with any sanity, rationality, or conscience should trust or support, or consider anything less than enemies of everyone in whatever nation or polity they're operating within, and no better than those they carry out such vile, reactionary tactics against.
Berzerker
Deity
Yes, the deep state was there before Obama. It turned a critic of the Iraq War into a "lets bomb Libya and Syria" fanboy. The deep state is the revolving door between the weapons makers and the military/intelligence apparatus (Wall St + Pentagon) that has evolved over the decades with the Cold War. The deep state feeds on war, conflict is good for business. Naturally warmongers need excellent PR so the media will manufacture our consent. Biden is their man.
Ok, yet this isn't in line with Obama never allowing other states to invade Syria, while Trump did. How does that make Trump less involved in Syria's doom than Obama?
Does the term "step 1" imply, like kinda obviously, that there are more steps coming?
I think it's kind of obvious. Also 'proto-fascist' =/= fascist. I think that's mostly obvious as well, since the suffix 'proto' has a well-known meaning in both colloquial and even more precise discussion.
So, here's what happened, you had trouble understanding a few words or phrases and then you accused me of becoming similar to Trump's cronies. It's tiring dude. And, actually, I'm done.
Berzerker
Deity
I dont know if the ban was justified, I do know the reason why Trump wanted to ban refugees was because Obama spent much of his 2nd term making sure the region was full of terrorists. You dont see any irony in complaining about a travel ban on Syria while Obama destroyed the country?
The thing is, the ME in the 4 years of Trump's rule is massively more dangerous than it was when Obama left. People in America may have not noticed, but apart from full-on wars going on in four countries (Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq), there is mayhem in more and troop movements all around.
I won't be surprised if the whole thing turns into an actual Gigantic war.
I won't be surprised if the whole thing turns into an actual Gigantic war.
American leadership created victims and then abandoned them after the change in leadership. You approved of what the new leadership has done and I pointed out how it fit my list of proto-fascist actions Trump took.
I only jumped in after you said nice things about Trump. Then, when confronted with proto-fascist aspect of his platform, you created (or explained) apologetics for it. Then I mocked you.
Fascism is far-right authoritarian. Obama is nothing of the sort. He never sought dictatorial power, didn't hold far-right views, or any of the other hallmarks of fascism.
Like, say.
He didn't write that after 2016. He wrote it in 2004. It fits Trump to a tee.
Like, say.
He didn't write that after 2016. He wrote it in 2004. It fits Trump to a tee.
The rest of this has already been answered by others, but what is it with you and Obama?
Libya? That was the UK and France.
Patine
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Well, you defended, more or less, someone (@Cutlass) who called me an "apologist to Fascism," a "defender of Fascism," a "Trump supporter," and then, an outright, "Fascist," for DARING to bring up clarity of terminology in the lines of debate and discussion on the overuse and generic overapplication of the word, "Fascist," to every single right-wing, remotely authoritarian and/or abusive ideology and government type, rather than being more concise with terms for more constructive discussion and combatting such movements with more clarity in their own individual contexts. My understanding of these words and phrases is not lacking - yours is, and those are defending for more vicious rhetoric. Whether you like it or not, and whether it pleases you or not, "Fascism," is NOT a generic catch-all, it IS very specific and narrow-defined term. After more or less giving such support to @Cutlass, who made his ridiculous McCarthyist witch-hunting absolutist slander attack, why do you think you have, or deserve, any higher ground at all in finding my statements "tiring." The "stones-and-glass-house," idiom comes VERY clearly to mind here.
amadeus
rad thibodeaux-xs
I’m a little confused; I think I’ve only mentioned Obama once in recent memory. What I mean about him with Joe Biden is that he needs to talk about reasons to elect Joe Biden, not Obama’s Vice President, if that makes any sense.
Sorry, lunch break at work over!
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