2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Farm Boy]

Another reason to oppose expansion of federalism over localism in a lot of cases. You should base your voting around the elections where you're one of a couple hundred, or a thousand, instead of one where you're one of a 100 million. Your school board matters.

 

[Zardnaar]

So, who are the Anti-Police and Prison Abuse African-American voters going to bleed to with Harris as the VP choice? Certainly not Trump. Are you starting to FINALLY see how much a failure and a con-game the U.S. two-party system is, and no government "of the people, for the people, and by the people," is even remotely possible while these two criminal cartels hold illegal power through rigged and corruptly influenced elections (the crime these enigmatic Russian hackers were so venomous indicted for in 2016, but which the DNC, RNC, FEC, federal judges, and partisan media barons who no longer broadcast, but only propaganda, have been committing, and getting away with, in every election, for decades). Do you even begin to see the massive hoodwink over 400 million people you have no real choice in their leadership, but firmly believe they do!?

I live in reality.

Even if they had NZs system the progressive wing still semi screwed as they wouldn't win a majority and would have to coalition anyway.

 

[Patine]

I live in reality.

No, you don't. I AM talking about reality. Maybe an inconvenient underbelly of it few want to admit or face, but it's obviously there. You're buying into the crap - pure propaganda crap, I might add - that supporting a broken, corrupt, criminal, and dystopian system again and again will somehow, magically, bring good results. That's part of the hoodwink.

 

[AmazonQueen]

No, you don't. I AM talking about reality. Maybe an inconvenient underbelly of it few want to admit or face, but it's obviously there. You're buying into the crap - pure propaganda crap, I might add - that supporting a broken, corrupt, criminal, and dystopian system again and again will somehow, magically, bring good results. That's part of the hoodwink.

No, its a matter of when your choice is between a really bad option and a bad option the bad option is better. You are the one ignoring the real world when perfect choices aren't always available.

 

[Kyriakos]

No, its a matter of when your choice is between a really bad option and a bad option the bad option is better. You are the one ignoring the real world when perfect choices aren't always available.

I wonder why making a worse choice than other possible ones apparently is never a thing for politicians. Like who to choose as your VP

 

[Zardnaar]

I wonder why making a worse choice than other possible ones apparently is never a thing for politicians. Like who to choose as your VP

Harris ticks more boxes than she offends.

Women check, minority check. Who does she offend.

Hard right who don't like wimen. Who won't vote for you anyway.

A % of hard left who are a small minority anyway.

Appease the hard left (probably 5-10%) and you annoy everyone to the left of them.

 

[Farm Boy]

Pretty sure this is the point where you've baited out the, "Go cram it, ya Zard."

 

[onejayhawk]

Or Ohio if my prediction holds. In my prediction, Trump should win both Ohio and Florida, which is normally a big deal, but he's going to lose in so many other key states that winning those two simply won't matter.

Trump won Ohio by over 8%. I am not sure you can consider it in play.

Bleed votes to whom?

In this case Trump in battleground states.

Where Trump is ahead of four years ago.

Trump's so repulsive maybe an actual progressive could win who knows. As I said even if a progressive could win it's not a hot fix. It's going to take 25-40 years. Trump might be that catalyst for real change though.

Harris definitely fits the actual progressive bill, if you believe the position statements.

No, its a matter of when your choice is between a really bad option and a bad option the bad option is better. You are the one ignoring the real world when perfect choices aren't always available.

That's what got Trump elected in 2016. Trump is uncouth but Clinton is a vampire.

Harris ticks more boxes than she offends.

Only for progressives.

Women check, minority check. Who does she offend. Hard right who don't like wimen. Who won't vote for you anyway. A % of hard left who are a small minority anyway. Appease the hard left (probably 5-10%) and you annoy everyone to the left of them.

Her race and sex are not an issue. The right doesn't care.

However, the affirmative action label fits. Her resume is weak, she is from a won state and she is not a dynamic speaker.

J

 

[Zardnaar]

Trump won Ohio by over 8%. I am not sure you can consider it in play.



Where Trump is ahead of four years ago.


Harris definitely fits the actual progressive bill, if you believe the position statements.


That's what got Trump elected in 2016. Trump is uncouth but Clinton is a vampire.


Only for progressives.


Her race and sex are not an issue. The right doesn't care.

However, the affirmative action label fits. Her resume is weak, she is from a won state and she is not a dynamic speaker.

J

She doesn't have to be. She's progressive enough for most people I suppose, not to progressive, not to black either.
I suspect Trump will Lise Florida and 2/3 of the Midwest end states and probably some others. Texas is a hail Mary for the Dems IMHO.

Low turnout due to restricted locations or other shenanigans may change this.

 

[Patine]

No, its a matter of when your choice is between a really bad option and a bad option the bad option is better. You are the one ignoring the real world when perfect choices aren't always available.

Neither ticket is what is needed for the United States, even remotely, at this time, and the nomination of Biden, and then his tapping of Harris, is a betrayal by the Democratic Party's elites against a very vocal and active part of the voter they lean on - an insulting and arrogant snub. And the fact that, once, again, no third alternative is ALLOWED to win by the long-standing, rigged system, shows the glaring crimes of electoral malfeasance and interference, corruption, and high treason against their nation by those rigging and fixing the system to institutionally suppress all non-Duopoly parties and candidates from being allowed to win, which they commit every election for the last several decades, being much more glaring for their high crimes now - crimes which enigmatic Russian hackers were indicted for in 2016. And, by definition, the concept of a choice of a "lesser of two evils," means your still choosing an "evil," and if two "evils," are the only choices, that makes the whole system "evil," by default, doesn't it?

 

[Narz]

Women check, minority check

Sociopath check ✔

 

[RobAnybody]

Who does she offend.

No one. She's just an excuse for people who were already going to vote Trump to say "OMG guys, I was like totes 'bout to vote Biden until he picked [insert VP choice here]." It gives them an out to claim they were "forced" to do what they were gonna do anyway but blame "the Dems" for not choosing The Ghost of Reagan as a running mate.

 

[Arwon]

Here's the thing: the US electoral system, like the UK and Canadian electoral system with the same voting method, is just the worst. But abstaining from voting does not undermine the electoral system, and voting for a minor party doesn't actually impact the race in this case.

If you live somewhere the race is close, your actions do necessarily impact on Trump v Biden. The very fact that the system places you in that bad position and forces a tactical vote is a big part of why the system is bad, but that doesn't actually change the reality of what the system is.

But then again, any system with an executive presidency ultimately forces a "lesser of two evils" choice, even if it's via ranked voting or via a second round run-off. Other systems are just better at genuinely highlighting the position of alternatives before ultimately forcing that choice, making it easier for them to break through and perhaps become the lesser evil or greater evil themselves.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Neither ticket is what is needed for the United States, even remotely, at this time, and the nomination of Biden, and then his tapping of Harris, is a betrayal by the Democratic Party's elites against a very vocal and active part of the voter they lean on - an insulting and arrogant snub. And the fact that, once, again, no third alternative is ALLOWED to win by the long-standing, rigged system, shows the glaring crimes of electoral malfeasance and interference, corruption, and high treason against their nation by those rigging and fixing the system to institutionally suppress all non-Duopoly parties and candidates from being allowed to win, which they commit every election for the last several decades, being much more glaring for their high crimes now - crimes which enigmatic Russian hackers were indicted for in 2016. And, by definition, the concept of a choice of a "lesser of two evils," means your still choosing an "evil," and if two "evils," are the only choices, that makes the whole system "evil," by default, doesn't it?

And in the meantime back in the real world.

 

[innonimatu]

Truman was a'ight, iirc, and Johnson got some good stuff done - the Civil Rights Act, Medicare - but of course the Vietnam War weighs down any overall judgments of his presidency.

Truman got the cold war going, changing policy from FDR.

 

[Farm Boy]

No one. She's just an excuse for people who were already going to vote Trump to say "OMG guys, I was like totes 'bout to vote Biden until he picked [insert VP choice here]." It gives them an out to claim they were "forced" to do what they were gonna do anyway but blame "the Dems" for not choosing The Ghost of Reagan as a running mate.

Nah, the pick just made me look up and realize he flopped on Hyde. Still not voting for Assclown. The four of them can burn as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RobAnybody]

Uh huh. Totally believe you. Like he was ever gonna actually support a silly "OMG money is not fungible" position. Come on. You knew that going in. The Hyde Amendment is ludicrous & pretends money can't be used as money if you stamp it as "not for this!". But the Harris nom is what put you over the top. This is your out to do what you wanted to do anyway. I have no problem with that. Just don't pretend otherwise. I have no sympathy for the people who are like "I would have voted Dem if they just nominated my Republican candidate with my Republican platform". This is your out. Just take it. Don't be coy about it.

 

[Patine]

And in the meantime back in the real world.

How is my post not "in the real world?" Is the "real world," you speak of a place where the American political system is free-and-fair, not subject to institutional corruption and rigging, and always offers a palatable candidate who is needed in a given election and can feel good about supporting, and shame others with a sense of moral rectitude for not supporting? If this is the "real world," to you, I'd advise to stop smoking whatever hallucinogenic agent you're indulging in and open your eyes. You and @Zardnaar accusing ME of not being in the "real world," while portraying a lie and delusion born of propaganda with any fool can see is not really how it is and is nothing more than a hoodwink is a disingenuous ploy to dismiss, offhand, a very valid and serious problem, or a sign that you both drink the Kool-Aid heavily and delusionally believe this tripe/ But I assure you both, I am in the real world, and just because it doesn't live up to your hopes, dreams, and expectations, doesn't make it unreal. So, if you two have rebuttals to any argument or statement I have, you can dispense with the pitiful "real world," crap that just makes YOU look out of touch.

 

[Farm Boy]

Uh huh. Totally believe you. Like he was ever gonna actually support a silly "OMG money is not fungible" position. Come on. You knew that going in. The Hyde Amendment is ludicrous & pretends money can't be used as money if you stamp it as "not for this!". But the Harris nom is what put you over the top. This is your out to do what you wanted to do anyway. I have no problem with that. Just don't pretend otherwise. I have no sympathy for the people who are like "I would have voted Dem if they just nominated my Republican candidate with my Republican platform". This is your out. Just take it. Don't be coy about it.

Yea yea, and cigarette taxes go to education and smoking prevention, but that actually still matters despite your little ennui over it "all being the same." OMG.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Will Trump drop Pence and pick up Nikki Halley now that Joe has Kamala? Seems likely to me. He will give up the evangelical for a female who can be aggressive.