A maximum wage?

[Hygro]

Uneven, yes, but boring?!?! How can you possibly say that the EPL is a boring league?!

Because they play soccer

 

[Mise]

Because they play soccer

Better acting than Kristen Stewart.

 

[Hygro]

I didn't know who that was until I looked her up. Goddamn she's like 3 or 4 movies into the series and she was born in the 1990s? I feel so damn old. I thought she was alright in Panic Room :s

Also, back to capital accumulation. That's the key factor here.

 

[Winner]

Luiz is correct and I'm frustrated that people are largely ignoring his point that wages are not the primary source of economic inequality between the super rich, the rich, and the rest, but rather capital accumulation is.

Who exactly is disputing that?

 

[luiz]

Who exactly is disputing that?

So how's placing a cap on wages changing that?

And if you say you want to deal with that too, you should start by that as it actually dwarfs wages. You're complaining about the ant while there's an elephant at your side.

 

[Yeekim]

So how's placing a cap on wages changing that?

It is tearing the gap wider, as I am now pointing out for the 3rd time.

 

[Mise]

It is tearing the gap wider, as I am now pointing out for the 3rd time.

Luiz's point is that it doesn't do jack for inequality. It's like a fat man who eats 10 McDonald's a day trying to lose weight by making his Coke a Diet Coke instead.

 

[Winner]

So how's placing a cap on wages changing that?

And if you say you want to deal with that too, you should start by that as it actually dwarfs wages. You're complaining about the ant while there's an elephant at your side.

No, and I already explained why. This is not an argument, it is an evasion. It's like saying that since giving your old clothes to a charity won't do jack *** for the remaining 99.9999% people in the world, there is no reason to do that.

A maximum wage would prevent a runaway overpaying of certain employees that in many companies produces absurd situations when the management is getting bonuses and pay rises when salaries of the common staff are being reduced and people are being laid off en masse. (Among other things.) That sounds to me as a worthy goal, even though it would do nothing about the other type of the hyper-rich. Something else would obviously need to be invented to address their case.

 

[Hygro]

No it wouldn't, because without a comprehensive plan you'll see workarounds like other forms of compensation completely outside of salary. You'll see a massive shift in how money is paid out, but you won't see much of a shift in how much money is paid out and to whom.

Meanwhile those with lots of money are growing their money while the average person's equity stays flat, or even has net debt.

 

[Arwon]

Uneven, yes, but boring?!?! How can you possibly say that the EPL is a boring league?! It has some of the best players in the world, playing against the best players in the world. The outcome may be more or less predictable for certain low-ranking teams for the season as a whole, but that hardly matters when the football that is played is easily the best in the world. I don't care that the competition for the winner is really only between 6 or so teams, because those 6 teams are more exciting to watch than the World Cup final, and they play every week rather than ever 4 years. Even the low ranking teams are more exciting and more talented than the vast majority of international matches.

Seriously, who gives a crap who wins the league? If you just want to masturbate over the results then you don't need to follow football to do that - any boringass competition in the world will do. I thought we were interested in the game, not the results...

P.S. this post may seem off topic, but there is an analogy lurking in there too...

I actually find it very difficult to get excited about club soccer most of the time. It's so nakedly a business there's very little room for romance. I realise that's a silly and unrealistic concern, but sport has to at least try and pretend there's something other than money involved.

It's just different expectations. I can't fathom why people put up with such an unfair contest, regardless of how good the talent concentrated in the top three teams might be. That argument seems a step away from replacing the NBA with an endless series of Harlem Globetrotters matches.

I mean, in my favourite sport we talk about "premiership droughts" because the expectation is teams will eventually win one due to salary caps and the draft. I will forever remember when my team broke a 72 year drought a few years ago, it was one of the happier moments of my life. I can't imagine supporting a team which had literally no hope of ever winning the big prize (well that isn't quite true, in theory I'm a Real Zaragoza supporter and of course there's the Socceroos).

But then again there's a lot I don't get about your sport. I mean I still don't understand why your standard European football league doesn't have finals. So clearly you guys are conditioned with a very different set of expectations than I've grown up with.

Though really, nothing in the sport of soccer will ever match this or this.

 

[Crezth]

I´m curious why you so persistently want to tear this gap even larger.

Please explain.

 

[Mise]

@Arwon: You seriously underestimate the level of talent present at all levels of the EPL, all the way from the top to the bottom. The talent in the bottom 3 clubs in the EPL beats the talent in most World Cup squads... The very best player that America has to offer plays for a club that is currently 16th in the English Premier League!

 

[Yeekim]

Please explain.

If maximum wages were introduced and if companies really played according to these rules instead of skirting them, wouldn't that mean even more money goes to the capitalist and even less to the employees? CEOs are, curiously enough, also employees.

 

[warpus]

I actually find it very difficult to get excited about club soccer most of the time. It's so nakedly a business there's very little room for romance. I realise that's a silly and unrealistic concern, but sport has to at least try and pretend there's something other than money involved.

It's just different expectations. I can't fathom why people put up with such an unfair contest, regardless of how good the talent concentrated in the top three teams might be. That argument seems a step away from replacing the NBA with an endless series of Harlem Globetrotters matches.

It's not really that unfair. Any team has a chance to beat any other team in the league, on any given day.

Statistically speaking teams that play at home and teams with more money win more, but the EPL is far more unpredictable than the Spanish league, for example. I remember a time when the EPL was far more predictable than it is now - the "big 4" always won all their games, or at least tied them. These days minnow teams seem to beat big teams a lot more often.

I agree that it should be more competitive, but that won't happen unless there is a salary cap, and that won't happen in the EPL unless there is a UEFA-wide cap. The FA would never cripple the Premier League and prevent it from competing with other European leagues unless everyone was following suit.

And in the end, if the EPL had a playoff system, like in North America, at the end of the season, you'd see unexpected teams become champions too. The main reason why you see usual teams at the top all the time is because the league is set up to put teams at the top who perform well consistently, over 38 games. For that you require depth and teams with more money have more depth. On a single game basis, anyone can win. If there were playoffs, big teams would be knocked out by minnows, just like in the FA cup.

 

[Crezth]

If maximum wages were introduced and if companies really played according to these rules instead of skirting them, wouldn't that mean even more money goes to the capitalist and even less to the employees? CEOs are, curiously enough, also employees.

Well... yeah.

I guess luiz has a pretty good point. But the fact remains there's a colossal disparity between your CEO and your worker as well.

 

[Yeekim]

Well... yeah.

I guess luiz has a pretty good point. But the fact remains there's a colossal disparity between your CEO and your worker as well.

I think Mise had even better point in that there doesn't seem to be any negative externalities here. Without disputing the existence of that disparity, focusing on eliminating that through maximum wage mechanism seems to be a textbook example of crab mentality.

 

[Patroklos]

Luiz's point is that it doesn't do jack for inequality. It's like a fat man who eats 10 McDonald's a day trying to lose weight by making his Coke a Diet Coke instead.

I really hate your analogy and every other time it comes up. Switching to solely diet soda cuts in some cases up to 20% of the calories out of the meal. If it is not fast food, it can mean cutting 30-40% of the calories out of a meal.

In your example that decision would have removed 1800 calories from the daily intake. Thats if we are only considering one can's worth of soda, we know most fast food places (and resturaunts in general) offer larger serving sizes and endless refills. Its probably more like 3600 calories.

 

[galdre]

an absolute maximum on pay would not work - a relative maximum (ie c-level pay in relation to average employee and/or lowest paid employee) might work

 

[Mise]

I really hate your analogy and every other time it comes up. Switching to solely diet soda cuts in some cases up to 20% of the calories out of the meal. If it is not fast food, it can mean cutting 30-40% of the calories out of a meal.

In your example that decision would have removed 1800 calories from the daily intake. Thats if we are only considering one can's worth of soda, we know most fast food places (and resturaunts in general) offer larger serving sizes and endless refills. Its probably more like 3600 calories.

I meant changing 1 of his cokes to a diet coke, not all 10.

 

[zjintz]

If maximum wages were introduced and if companies really played according to these rules instead of skirting them, wouldn't that mean even more money goes to the capitalist and even less to the employees? CEOs are, curiously enough, also employees.

So a maximun wage may reduce the gap between CEOs, and all the other employees.
The real challenging question, is how to reduce the gap between those who are employees, and those who are employers?. Of course without going into an anarco-communism revolution.
any ideas?.