A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback

[lenin1917]

i thinks to that was my problem but i dont find RoM 2.92. because when i download A new dawn they give me a link to download RoM 2.92 but i thinks his Rom 2.91 there the link of the New Dawn i donload and yuo can see the Rom 2.92 link and confirms me if is 2.91 or 2.92

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12838

Thanks

 

[lenin1917]

your right i try another link and i finally have RoM 2.92 so now its work Thanks You

 

[jfuesting]

.....I have also observed that Fredrick has a city with 7 priest for Naghalism (sp?) sitting in it with only 1 defender.JosEPh

I've noticed this in several games so far. I entered world builder on a game I quit because I was fielding my first carriers, and the second most advanced AI was just hitting rifleman. Anyway, I peeked around, and all the religious (civic or trait) AI's had 50+ missionaries in their cities. Franco had over 100, and there were only 60 cities on the map! I deleted all these superfluous missionaries, and the turn speed went up noticeably. Unfortunately, the AI immediately switched to cranking them out again.

I don't really mess with World Builder much, but is there a way to select a specific unit in a stack to delete? I had to delete stacks of military units to get to the missionaries. Was a pain replacing them. I wanted to see if the AI would repeat the missionary builds, even when their relative military strength was the same.

P.S. ; sorry but I deleted the save, otherwise I would post it.

 

[Malchar]

I've also had the problem of the AI making too many missionaries. The last savegame that I posted has this problem occurring with the Celtics as far as I know. I haven't gone into worldbuilder to double check though. I was hesitant to complain about it since the Celts were still doing better than I was. I'm also curious if missionaries might be contributing to a civ's power rating. Empirically, it seems like the Celts have or had a hefty power rating at one point despite having a ton of missionaries.

 

[Iceciro]

Hmmm... Aren't the missionaries national units? 0_o If not they should be - I find the AI in ANY given game that includes missionaries overproduces them en-masse and a national limit is a good way to prevent that sort of fail.

AFAIK I've never been given an under-the-hood reason WHY they feel they need so many, so I've just chalked it up to "the AI is ********" and put caps on their units.

 

[AndarielHalo]

I don't know if it's a problem with the AI or with the Increasing Difficulty, but in the last game I was in, the other civs were researching things WAY too early and WAY too quickly, to a degree where they were about to enter the Renaissance era with Gunpowder by only 500 AD, whereas I was basically buying half my technologies from my allies.

Now in this game, I started at an easier difficulty, and had Increasing Difficulty elevate me all the way to Deity, and it's the complete opposite! I'm the technological powerhouse, and the closest civ is 30 points away from me (120 versus 90). I'm resorting to giving away technologies just to have them catch up, which was exactly what I did during one of the games I played in the Beta.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Hmmm... Aren't the missionaries national units? 0_o If not they should be - I find the AI in ANY given game that includes missionaries overproduces them en-masse and a national limit is a good way to prevent that sort of fail.

AFAIK I've never been given an under-the-hood reason WHY they feel they need so many, so I've just chalked it up to "the AI is ********" and put caps on their units.

I think there is an experiment in AND 1.74 to remove the national limit on missionaries as being artificial. It was part of another discussion elsewhere. I have not noticed it in my games but then I just realised yesterday, that I was not using the latest patch.

 

[climat]

Missionaries are not national units. Instead, they cost 1 gold per turn for maintenance.

 

[AndarielHalo]

I still think the game's speed moves too slowly at the start. Right now in my game it is around 1168 BC and the political landscape is something closer to resembling 168 BC. I don't know how to translate this into terms of game turns. It'd be like having nuclear weapons in the Industrial era.

Technology rate is better on Snail mode, though

 

[Zimbaa]

Missionaries are not national units. Instead, they cost 1 gold per turn for maintenance.

All except Hindu are NOT national, atleast in my game

 

[Justin Cray]

I think the surplus missionaries can be linked to closed borders, the AI builds one missionary per city it knows exists, but can't reach those cities due to closed borders.

Make Missionaries National Units again please.

 

[Iceciro]

Missionaries are not national units. Instead, they cost 1 gold per turn for maintenance.

Wow, so now they further cripple the AI with maintenance. I know why they're not being competitive with me now on settings they used to do fine with... they have no income between 1) spending too much time building missionaries and 2) upkeep maint.

If you really want to do this, at least python code it so the AI can only have a limited number, otherwise it can and will shoot itself in the foot.

 

[climat]

I think the only problem of national unit limit is that it is same in all map size(Someone said just 3 is too harsh in larger maps if i remember correctly).

 

[dudeSDCA]

Missionary Limit:

3 was too few, especially on larger maps. In some cases, you could spend up until the point where you get secular just trying to keep your religion spreading within your own borders (on some speeds)! There was back and forth discussion -- we wanted to remove the limit (and thought it was artificial), but wanted to make sure the player/AI wouldn't spam units. For instance, one of the more extreme suggestions was an increasing mantenance cost (0 gold for the first 3, then 3 gold per unit for the next 3, then 6 gold per unit..etc.). We ultimately settled on the 1 gold maintenance.

Sounds like the issue is not that players want it to be a national unit again because of play style, but rather, because the AI is mass/over producing missionaries, slowing gameplay, and crippling economy?

@ Afforess: Maybe we can tweak the AI to implement some of this logic:

Only produce missionaries for the following reasons:
- They have cities that currently don't have the state religion they want to spread the religion to
- They are trying to convert their neighbors to said religion, so the missionaries are being sent there.

Stop producing:
- If there are no valid targets or plans to use the missionaries
- If there's more than 1 missionary in a city idle

 

[os79]

Let's keep Missionaries issue simple.

Since missionaries are important, but not that important, let's make a small tweak.

Why not leave 1 per turn cost but add back National Limits to 10?
The number of 10 is large enough that human players would rarely feel the pinch, but small enough for AI not to "shoot themselves in their feet" as Iceicro so poetically put it.

 

[NBAfan]

I still think the game's speed moves too slowly at the start. Right now in my game it is around 1168 BC and the political landscape is something closer to resembling 168 BC. I don't know how to translate this into terms of game turns. It'd be like having nuclear weapons in the Industrial era.

Technology rate is better on Snail mode, though

Don't worry about the date. It is impossible too match it with the tech tree.

Wow, so now they further cripple the AI with maintenance. I know why they're not being competitive with me now on settings they used to do fine with... they have no income between 1) spending too much time building missionaries and 2) upkeep maint.

The missionaries seem to be killing the AI in my games.

 

[DRJ]

@Afforess:

Why can't we have a missionary limit, like each civ can have max of 5? The limit of 3 in earlier versions was a bit low, so why not make it 5?

One other question: if you play with fixed borders and then kill a civ sometimes plots still have the culture of the killed civ on it and can't be claimed anymore. That sucks. Is that bug debugged already or do you need further infos?

 

[os79]

Afforess is busy now, but I can tweak the SVN for him (have writing authorization).

But I want to know if my idea of 10 max plus still having 1 per turn cost is good one. If it's good one according to maybe 5 or so regular posters here, I can do it.

If Afforess disagree or want to try something different, he can always tweak the SVN to his way in later revisions .

 

[climat]

That seems like quite.. large number? 5~7 seems reasonable for me.
Also, if missionaries go back to national unit, is maintenance cost really needed? We already have unit cost system and I think missionaries aren't that "high-maintenance" units.

 

[os79]

That seems like quite.. large number? 5~7 seems reasonable for me.
Also, if missionaries go back to national unit, is maintenance cost really needed? We already have unit cost system and I think missionaries aren't that "high-maintenance" units.

Consensus so far:

1=~5 National max, no gold/turn cost