A Petition to Merge NES-IOT

[NinjaCow64]

Because it is petition season, I have decided to post this petition. The petition aims to merge the Never Ending Stories (NES) and Imperium Offtopicum (IOT) sub-forums into one bigger forum. Why?

-The two sub-forums share similar kinds of games, they are (mostly) both about empires and nations.
-The two sub-forums would benefit from an increased player base, this merger would probably provide this.

Obviously this merger would be mutually exclusive with the merger with the reunification of Forum Games, as I doubt that there are many within the community that would support a Forum Games-NES merger.

As such, we humbly request the CFC Administration to unite these two forums into one forum with postcount, where similar games in the future could be played.

Sincerely,

NinjaCow64 and the other people who vote yes on the poll (which I hope will be more than the people who vote no).

 

[ChiefDesigner]

Explaining my NO vote --

In terms of the nature of games run and the culture of the playerbase, an IOT/NES merger will result in conflict, hurt feelings, and extensive disagreements about how a forum game should be run.

I would characterize IOTs as stats-driven, whereas I understand NESes to aim at being narratively-driven.

Leave the decision of what to play to the players.

 

[Ailedhoo]

I would characterize IOTs as stats-driven, whereas I understand NESes to aim at being narratively-driven.

That is not exactly the definition. A IOT can be narrative focused greatly like LazyNES similar games like Its a Mad, Mad, Mad World. The narrative nature of IOTs like the Iron and Blood series has to also be considered.

NES and IOT are not water and oil but rather collectives of fruits. The similarities of IOTs and NESes could lead to consideration that sharing a sub forum might be a notion not of dread but of innovation.

It could also, as the IOT-Forum petition argued, help encourage a new type of live into IOTs.

 

[NinjaCow64]

That is not exactly the definition. A IOT can be narrative focused greatly like LazyNES similar games like Its a Mad, Mad, Mad World. The narrative nature of IOTs like the Iron and Blood series has to also be considered.

NES and IOT are not water and oil but rather collectives of fruits. The similarities of IOTs and NESes could lead to consideration that sharing a sub forum might be a notion not of dread but of innovation.

It could also, as the IOT-Forum petition argued, help encourage a new type of live into IOTs.

Yeah I agree with this. I understand the fears of merging, but if we try something good might happen. And if it doesn't, we can always dissolve the merger at a later date.

 

[Terran Empress]

As someone who frequents both, I am willing for the merge, however both sides pose a good point, in general IOTs are stat based, while NES is narritive based, however the advantage of a combined sub forum with greater players greatly over way's the slight "cultural" disadvantage. Basically if this was EU4, NES is Denmark, and IOT is Sweden, and I want my Scandinavia , I am sorry I have been playing way too much EU4 lately

 

[Tee Kay]

The difference between NES and IOT is mostly appearances, personality, and community rather than the games themselves. The narrative vs stats thing is bullcrap. IOT started out as being purely narrative, after all.

Really, the biggest thing standing between a merger is the hostility of some NESers towards IOTers.

 

[Angst]

I have no interest atm to partake in IOTs but find that the two genres are close enough to merge.

EDIT: One thing though. The two game types use quite different terminology at times (something I find very interesting btw) so the merger might initially bring some confusion to game entries. For example, in NES it's assumed that nations are per default "serious business" while I've found the province based RISKesque IOT systems usualy have a common understanding of "lolsiness" - understand that this position of mine is mainly gained from a glance over IOT's boards, not a deep inspection, so you might as well find me wrong.

 

[spryllino]

Such a significant step should not be taken without an overwhelming consensus that does not exist.

I don't, though, think we NESers hate you, by and large. I think the main difference is that IOTs don't really aim at verisimilitude, whereas NESes normally do, and even ones that don't emphasise it too heavily expect it implicitly as part of the way in which their player base will act. Of course, that has exceptions, but I think it is generally true.

 

[kiwitt]

Merge

 

[Luckymoose]

No, and we sure as hell don't need your games flooding our subforum. IOTs are largely stat-based and simple games without the depth of story driven gameplay, and everyone see this. Most IOTers that have made the jump are so out of the loop that they cause more problems with out of character and destructive play than anyone would like. It would only be worse if we were forced to let you all participate constantly. Having two subforums keeps most of the peace. NESers have very little to no interest in playing IOTs. We don't need forty of your games pushing NESes out of the way with your spam fests.

 

[Camikaze]

It's probably worth keeping in mind that Mafia and NOTW are different things too, but manage to inhabit the same subforum, and mutually benefit. That's not to say that the same would be the case for IOT/NES; there may be other factors that ruin any analogy. Note that arguments based around some people wanting to exclude others from 'their' community aren't going to fly (not saying that's what anyone has said, just that it would not be productive for any discussion to go in that direction; a direction I believe it has sometimes gone in the past).

 

[filli_noctus]

I, personally am in favour. There's a lot of commonality between the two forums and enough of a player overlap for a crapstorm to kick up in one forum over a players behaviour in the other. Yes people with opinions like this

No, and we sure as hell don't need your games flooding our subforum. IOTs are largely stat-based and simple games without the depth of story driven gameplay, and everyone see this. Most IOTers that have made the jump are so out of the loop that they cause more problems with out of character and destructive play than anyone would like. It would only be worse if we were forced to let you all participate constantly. Having two subforums keeps most of the peace. NESers have very little to no interest in playing IOTs. We don't need forty of your games pushing NESes out of the way with your spam fests.

exist but they are in the minority, as well as dead wrong. Yes some people play lulzy nations but there have been plenty of games with "serious only" criteria which have been successful. I think the potential benefits outweigh the onerous necessity to add a line to the OP if you don't want daft nations.

 

[Daftpanzer]

EDIT: may rethink my position

Currently we know where to go for the kind of games and atmosphere that we want, I think it should stay that way. Both NES and IoT forums already have a lot of variety within them, from what I can tell.

 

[JohannaK]

As player of both, although I've basically left IOT in the last months and I have avoided deep NESes too, I find them similar enough to merge. And I find the differences pointed out by daft to reinforce that rather than the opposite. In front of shared themes and mechanisms, these seem to me much less important. But of course its in everybody's character.

As a note, that sounds very much like a sort of forumism somehow analogue to nationalism, and I find it really amusing after having had my own nationalist feelings attacked in #nes.

 

[Kozmos]

The difference between NES and IOT is mostly appearances, personality, and community rather than the games themselves. The narrative vs stats thing is bullcrap. IOT started out as being purely narrative, after all.

Really, the biggest thing standing between a merger is the hostility of some NESers towards IOTers.

That is because IOTers degrade NES quality with their shenanigans. It is like pissing at the dinner table and rolling in the gravy while people at least attempt to have civilized discourse.

 

[spryllino]

It's probably worth keeping in mind that Mafia and NOTW are different things too, but manage to inhabit the same subforum, and mutually benefit. That's not to say that the same would be the case for IOT/NES; there may be other factors that ruin any analogy. Note that arguments based around some people wanting to exclude others from 'their' community aren't going to fly (not saying that's what anyone has said, just that it would not be productive for any discussion to go in that direction; a direction I believe it has sometimes gone in the past).

As you accept may be the case, "excluding others" isn't the point at all. IOTers can, and regularly do, join NESes. However, most NESers, by and large - and for a variety of interrelated reasons the exact natures of which are basically irrelevant, but, all taken together, add up to a body of opinion against merging that should not be gone against - feel that this is a bad idea, in my case because NESing has a particular point and ethos that IOT does not share. This point and ethos I do not want diluted; it is not significantly diluted by IOTers crossing the line into NESing (which is generally a positive thing), but would be diluted by the demolition of this line in a forum reorganisation. Such a thing as a forum merge should not go ahead, in any case, without the near unanimous consent of both sides, and we certainly don't have much support at all in NES for a merger, let alone anything approaching a consensus.

 

[filli_noctus]

That is because IOTers degrade NES quality with their shenanigans. It is like pissing at the dinner table and rolling in the gravy while people at least attempt to have civilized discourse.

Generalise much? There are plenty of good and bad players in both forums, if the IOT forum has more bad it's probably due to being more welcoming to newer players (who are generally worse) due to the lack of elitist spiel like this (disclaimer - I recognise that this is not the opinion of the majority).

 

[Ailedhoo]

That is because IOTers degrade NES quality with their shenanigans. It is like pissing at the dinner table and rolling in the gravy while people at least attempt to have civilized discourse.

"Us vs. them" is not a mentality of reason, especially considering your argument if of spiteful attack of generalisation as oppose to a logical reasoning.

I hence cite filli-noctus's argument on that matter, as well as cite JK's consideration to "forumism" in the matter.

 

[Angst]

I think I'm in favor of the merger, but not when it's as close as it currently is in the poll.

 

[JohannaK]

I would like to say that I am not trying to make an accusation or a point against anyone, merely noting the resemblance between the two attitudes.