Altered Maps ΙΓ: To make a map larger than what it maps.

[trader/warrior]

Bok and NN refer to Bokmal and Nynorsk respectively, which is kind of a big deal in Norway from what I've heard. See here.

But technically Norwegian is one language with a whole mess of dialects of which Bokmål and Nynorsk are just written versions with different dialectical focus with no "pure" Bokmål or Nynorsk speakers actually in existence. However I would assume that for this linguistics research they are going by written language as it is a lot easier than trying to figure out the mess of stuff people actually speak.

 

[Borachio]

There's been considerable influence on the European Finno-Ugric languages by the Indo-European languages due to proximity, I'm assume that's why they're in there.

OK. But then how come Basque gets omitted? Proximity is as proximity does, I think.

 

[Lohrenswald]

But technically Norwegian is one language with a whole mess of dialects of which Bokmål and Nynorsk are just written versions with different dialectical focus with no "pure" Bokmål or Nynorsk speakers actually in existence. However I would assume that for this linguistics research they are going by written language as it is a lot easier than trying to figure out the mess of stuff people actually speak.

Yes, but the chart claims the size of the circles shows speakers, so it's stupid to not just have "norwegian"

Finno-Ugric leaves out the Samoyed languages

Much like this chart.

 

[Winner]

OK. But then how come Basque gets omitted? Proximity is as proximity does, I think.

Basque is a complete outlier, a language isolate. It's likely a small remnant of a language family spoken in Europe before it was overrun by Indo-European speakers.

 

[Borachio]

Indeed. So I've heard.

But it's been in proximity to a number of other languages, notably Romance ones, for a long time.

Why hasn't it been influenced by them? Why hasn't it influenced them?

 

[Winner]

I am sure it did (loan words), but since I don't know how that diagram quantifies lexical proximity, I can't speculate on why it was or was not included.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I'm assuming basque wasn't included because no one cares. But seriously the Uralic languages included are major ones, natinoal languages and such, which is why I guess they've been included.

 

[Borachio]

Yet Romansch is in there. Even Provençal, for goodness sake. Again, why not Basque?

I suppose Romansch gets in because it's not only an obviously Romance language but also officially recognized by Switzerland.

I don't get it. I can see why Basque doesn't make it into the graphic: because it's an isolate. But how did it stay an isolate?

Is it just how languages have evolved?

There were other pre-Indo-European languages which haven't survived. And Basque just happens to be the last of them?

 

[cybrxkhan]

Yet Romansch is in there. Even Provençal, for goodness sake. Again, why not Basque?

I suppose Romansch gets in because it's not only an obviously Romance language but also officially recognized by Switzerland.

I don't get it. I can see why Basque doesn't make it into the graphic: because it's an isolate. But how did it stay an isolate?

Is it just how languages have evolved?

There were other pre-Indo-European languages which haven't survived. And Basque just happens to be the last of them?

I'm assuming the graphic focuses on Indo-European languages, but includes a few token non-Indo-European languages for comparison, and whoever made this would have preferred to put in the more important non-Indo-European languages. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think this chart was made to focus on non-Indo-European languages.

 

[Lohrenswald]

"gipsy language" (I don't mean to be offensive) is an indo-european language (I think, or was it dravidian?) spoken by many people in europe that probably should have been included.

 

[Takhisis]

Catalan should be between Spanish and Occitan & French. BTW, where's Occitan?

PROvençal.

But technically Norwegian is one language with a whole mess of dialects of which Bokmål and Nynorsk are just written versions with different dialectical focus with no "pure" Bokmål or Nynorsk speakers actually in existence. However I would assume that for this linguistics research they are going by written language as it is a lot easier than trying to figure out the mess of stuff people actually speak.

I think you mean a language continuum, not a language.

The answer to the question 'what is Norwegian/English/Mongol/etc.?' can never be answered easily (if at all definitely) unless you take a language with geographical and social isolation on a remote island, with a small population.

"gipsy language" (I don't mean to be offensive) is an indo-european language (I think, or was it dravidian?) spoken by many people in europe that probably should have been included.

The word 'gypsy' is not offensive.

 

[gay_Aleks]

As someone who lives near gypsies, I can say for one: at this point, what you would call a "gypsy language" is just really an amalgamation of most if not all Balkan languages (which, truthfully, could be said for the same).

 

[Borachio]

Where's Yiddish?

Ah, see? No one thought of that, eh?

 

[Winner]

The word 'gypsy' is not offensive.

It is here.

As someone who lives near gypsies, I can say for one: at this point, what you would call a "gypsy language" is just really an amalgamation of most if not all Balkan languages (which, truthfully, could be said for the same).

Romani languages/dialects tend to partially merge with those of the countries where they live.

 

[madviking]

 

[Kyriakos]

^But the 'coastal corridor' happens to be where all of the cities of Syria exist, cause the rest is desert. So it makes sense for the majority there to control the country.

 

[Civ'ed]

That's 5 stans outside the area that uses the term "stan".

 

[Tee Kay]

That's 5 stans outside the area that uses the term "stan".

Weirder in that excl. Kurdistan these are all Arab states being named with a Persian suffix.

In any case the breakup of Syria except maybe the Kurdish bits is looking less likely now due to Assad's military victories. The breakup of Iraq on the other hand...

 

[cybrxkhan]

I wonder how much influence Persian has had on Arabic geographical terms outside of greater Iran.

 

[Tee Kay]

I wonder how much influence Persian has had on Arabic geographical terms outside of greater Iran.

On Arabic, next to none to none at all.

On Turkish, Hindustani, and so forth, a lot.