AND Enhanced Civics Mod 1.0

[antoca]

Im double anyones gnp all game as saladin but still they are even in techs, damn tech trading whores ^^ hehe

I remember the game, where only saladin's camels helped me to survive. It was funny.

Im bashing darius now.
In the game he upgraded like 50 longbows to those pre-musket dudes, no idea how AI can afford to upgrade all there units so much when they never have any money.

As I know upgrade cost is lower for AI. Also do not forget about the wonder, that descreased cost to 50%.
And we don't see what happens between turns. AI can trade a tech or something else to somebody and get more money.
Were 50 longbows in a stack? I didn't see really big stackes already many months and forgot how AI with big stack can declare a war and in 2 turns get one of my cities. Something wrong with map generator...

How do you have the SVN? who is working on it?

Right now nobody works. Last svn changes were done 2 months ago.
I just downloaded it, by Afforess's instruction. Look message #103 in current thread, I described how.
Then I applied this civic mod over it and it works fine.

P.S. I am not sure, but afraid that "no AI air force" bug is not fixed in SVN... And I do not see any possibility to fix it. I looked XML, but it seems problem is in DLL or maybe python, and it will take too much time for newbie to find what causes it.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I've tried a quick game with these enhanced civics+patch e; looks good but I suppose there's still a BIG problem with inflation. I still can't understand how it works but it looks like it's increasing terribly while turns are passing. I ended up with something like 600% of inflation which makes the game impossible to play with some civics. Actually, I haven't played it myself; to make it quick, I've left the pc AI-autoplay for me for 700 turns (normal speed, Giant Earth Map with no preset civs). The problem is that the only way to keep up the balance is using Free Market; every other economical civics that I've used give me a huge negative balance (like -15000 gold per turn). And many civs are still trying to keep these civics which of course bring them to 0 gold in a couple of turns, which in turns brings research down to 0. Basically when you reach modern era most of the civs can't research anything anymore because of the lack of funds. So I suppose there are 2 problems:
1. inflation which is still broken
2. AI which can't choose a civic which doesn't bring that civ on its knees for economical reasons.
In my previous game (which I also tried letting the pc autoplay to make it quick for testing purposes) most of the civs where completely destroyed due to lack of funds to do anything; most of the cities were razed by barbarians which were the result of massive revolts all around the world due to economical problems in every civ. Looks like a plausible future to me but yet I think there's some problem with inflation in the game...
Is anyone experiencing problems with inflation in the modern and following eras?

 

[Aline]

You should turn off the advanced economics option.

 

[antoca]

Is anyone experiencing problems with inflation in the modern and following eras?

No, because until you go into the modern era, you should face the bug with air forces. Everybody ends game before it. Really, I have no fully completed games in AND because of all these bugs. It frustates.
(But because you played on autoplay, you skipped it, of course...)

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

No, because until you go into the modern era, you should face the bug with air forces. Everybody ends game before it. Really, I have no fully completed games in AND because of all these bugs. It frustates.
(But because you played on autoplay, you skipped it, of course...)

Actually I don't seem to have any problem with air forces... I think there are problems with economy/inflation (no matter if I disable "advanced economy") and I suppose there's also a BIG problem with "Mastery Victory": right now in another test game on normal speed (700 turns) I'm about year 2000 AD and from the victory screen I can see that another civ has already launched a spaceship; the problem is that no civ is anyway near to discover space flight so I wonder how's that possible...

 

[karigaut]

Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but Monarchy seems to give unhappy faces for every 0% of tax :/

 

[antoca]

What do you mean? Despotism is slightly bugged, but Monarchy is ok.

 

[karigaut]

well when I converted to monarchy I got 5696324828468.... unhappy faces in every city! The people clearly prefer a despot Perhaps I installed the patch wrongly?

 

[antoca]

Yes, it seems, you did. There were such bugs without patch.

 

[Aline]

BTW where did Civthusiast go, havent seen him around in a while.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Please post any strange AI behaviour in the AI Behaviour thread so Afforess can see it.

If you have SVN and have d/l'd the AND trunk, located here: https://anewdawn.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/anewdawn/Trunk/Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn/

you can check for updates.

JosEPh

 

[antoca]

It seems Afforess already saw main AI bugs, that are described in "i've given up on this mod"
But, Joseph, do not forget to say him about jungle camps!

you can check for updates.

Nice! I will look in my next game what Afforess updated and whether it is compatible with ECM.

BTW where did Civthusiast go, havent seen him around in a while.

Shame, if he will not continue to work on this mod. It has potential.

P.S. Added funny screenshot of one AI player's city in my last game. Priests are overpowered for sure. I already decreased their bonus in XML from 3 to 2 foods and removed +1 gold bonus from civics. Testing right now...

 

[JosEPh_II]

antoca,

What game speed are you playing on? Snail? To be in the Ren Era and only be 180AD is....strange, for me anyway.

Jungle camp....I'll need to reread the thread for what it needs. I did notice last night that my 1st JC only gave 2 food and 1 gold.

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

antoca,

What game speed are you playing on? Snail? To be in the Ren Era and only be 180AD is....strange, for me anyway.

Jungle camp....I'll need to reread the thread for what it needs. I did notice last night that my 1st JC only gave 2 food and 1 gold.

JosEPh

Actually it's a long time I think that turns aren't good related with the "real" time; I'm making some tests on normal speed (I know AND isn't meant for that speed) and later I'll try with slower speed to adjust turns so they are more consistent with eras.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yes I remember that at one point Afforess removed the "Date" from the mod because of the complaints that the tech level/Eras didn't match with the Game Date. Wasn't realistic enough. But he put the Date back in after getting More complaints from it Not being there.

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Yes I remember that at one point Afforess removed the "Date" from the mod because of the complaints that the tech level/Eras didn't match with the Game Date. Wasn't realistic enough. But he put the Date back in after getting More complaints from it Not being there.

JosEPh

I know, I also remember this discussion has been made before; I'm trying to modify the gamespeed xml so that tech level/year match a little better; I'm using for my tests always the same configuration (map size+difficulty+number of civs and options); then once I've been able to obtain a good match with these options, I'll try and see what happens with different map sizes and/or gamespeeds and/or difficulty levels. After all, it should be only a matter of modifying Civ4GameSpeedInfo.xml because as it it now every "step" (months per turn) has the same size and this is clearly the problem (in my view); the boring part is that for a test it takes a lot of time even letting the AI autoplay for 700 turns (normal speed, as I said).

The original xml had, for normal speed, the following setting:

420*70 turns --> 3550 BC
300*70 turns --> 1800 BC
240*70 turns --> 400 BC
180*70 turns --> 650 AD
120*70 turns --> 1350 AD
60*70 turns --> 1700 AD
36*70 turns --> 1910 AD
24*70 turns --> 2050 AD
12*70 turns --> 2120 AD
6*70 turns --> 2155 AD

Right now I'm trying with

480*70 --> 3200 BC
336*70 --> 1240 BC
240*80 --> 360 AD
192*80 --> 1640 AD
60*50 --> 1890 AD
12*40 --> 1930 AD
6*210 --> 2025 AD
12*125 --> 2150 AD

and it looks a lot better; for example I've seen in different games I've made that Quantum Physics was discovered between 360 and 410 turns; with the default gamespeed xml this means that QP is discovered between 1350 and 1700... with my xml it's discovered between 1900 and 1940 which is good enough. The same goes for other techs I've checked.
I plan further testing and when I'm satisfied with these settings, I'll try a different gamespeed/difficulty/mapsize.
The only problem that I have to face now is that for some reason most of the civs in modern era really aren't good enough, mostly because they have economical problems; something is related to inflation (I play anyway without Adv Economy which was worsening the problem from some preliminary tests I've made), but I think there's more; right now I'm playing with Mastery Victory only and I'm starting to think that AI isn't able to use a good strategy to win that victory and face economical problems in the late eras; I still don't know if AI doesn't build some buildings or wonders that produce money or if they have a too large army and the wrong civics but very often they end up with the civ in STRIKE because they don't have gold. I even finished a game where most of the world was barbarian because of the multiple revolts in every civ...

 

[antoca]

antoca,

What game speed are you playing on? Snail? To be in the Ren Era and only be 180AD is....strange, for me anyway.

Matter of map.
Sgtslick "forced" me to use SmartMap and I have to say... it is good map. Complex enough, but there are many settings and I still can't tune fair start position for all players. Several AIs start in ice or tundra or without food resources.
Immortal difficulty and maraphon speed (also by advice of Sgtslick).
With immortal difficulty you have to build settlers non-stop, so I always out of money.
I really struggle first 200-300 turns and very angry. And even later AIs are pretty advanced (my screenshot is a good proof - 1k gold/turn and 100% research ) and sometimes build almost all wonders, religions, etc. But it is funny and what I want.

Actually it's a long time I think that turns aren't good related with the "real" time; I'm making some tests on normal speed (I know AND isn't meant for that speed) and later I'll try with slower speed to adjust turns so they are more consistent with eras.

This is not important for me, but would be good. But this is matter of map and difficulty too. You can tune for your map, but try other map - and you have other picture. Maybe something averaged could be good.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I'm playing with Mastery Victory only and I'm starting to think that AI isn't able to use a good strategy to win that victory and face economical problems in the late eras; I still don't know if AI doesn't build some buildings or wonders that produce money or if they have a too large army and the wrong civics but very often they end up with the civ in STRIKE because they don't have gold. I even finished a game where most of the world was barbarian because of the multiple revolts in every civ...

3 things :
1. I rarely use Mastery Victory condition (actually I have not used it for almost 2 years)
2. I argued against the maintenance cost a long time ago and got shot down. But as you and I can see the AI struggles from a lack of Gold.
3. I stopped using REV even long before I stopped using Mastery. Why have a good game going and by the time you get to Industrial or Modern Era all the once strong AI have become shattered wimps? And even if you experience a Rev or 2 the player normally can rebound whereas the AI doesn't seem to be able to do so. Again another old old argument that I even made phungus (the author of the LOR mod) mad over.

The Civics have been used to curtail gold too, for the most part.

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

This is not important for me, but would be good. But this is matter of map and difficulty too. You can tune for your map, but try other map - and you have other picture. Maybe something averaged could be good.

I know it depends on map/difficulty/gamespeed; I'm trying to reach a good balance with some preset kind of map, then I'll try working out a good balance for different settings. It will only take some time because to check if everything works as expected I let AI autoplay the game for me and to reach 700 turns (on normal speed) it almost requires 24 hours of uninterrupted play on my pc.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

3 things :
1. I rarely use Mastery Victory condition (actually I have not used it for almost 2 years)

I've just started using it; I'd like to start a MP game with some friends and Mastery sounds like a good goal (if it works!).

2. I argued against the maintenance cost a long time ago and got shot down. But as you and I can see the AI struggles from a lack of Gold.

Not every AI civ has this problem in the game, but sometimes it happens; I just wonder what makes it happen with some civ and not with some other civ.

3. I stopped using REV even long before I stopped using Mastery. Why have a good game going and by the time you get to Industrial or Modern Era all the once strong AI have become shattered wimps? And even if you experience a Rev or 2 the player normally can rebound whereas the AI doesn't seem to be able to do so. Again another old old argument that I even made phungus (the author of the LOR mod) mad over.

Well, I really can't play without Rev; the situation I described earlier where the world was almost taken over by barbarians happened to me just once; in my earlier games (before AND 1.75C) I've never seen such a situation and usually other civs could handle revolutions.