Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by Dom Pedro II, Sep 21, 2009.
Technical comment: Would also be no problem to do it in python.
Ah, sorry for the harsh word Nice to see that you're still working on them.
Yes but I like this new take on it.
I'm eager to see this released!
@The_J: Of course. But DLL adds the possibility to set up new tags easy to modify by most modders
I can honestly say I have never heard anyone describe water as "sexy".
Ok, things are coming along nicely... I'm still expecting to meet the deadline I set out. Maybe one or two days more depending on my real life situation.
After the initial release, I'm going to focus much of my time on resolving bugs and rebalancing. But I'm also going to start implementing phase 2 of the mod, which will consist of two main game components called Edicts and Factions. These will be a part of a larger internal politics component. Edicts will basically be laws of a sort that the player can put into effect for a temporary period of time that give certain bonuses and penalties.
Factions will be a major addition to the events system that will permit chaining of relevant events having to do with different political and social groups within your empire.
To get that part up and running, I'm going to need volunteers with XML and python experience to help design the event chains/trees as well as design the various factions. If anybody with artistic talent wants to help design artwork for the internal politics portion of this, that would be appreciated as well.
Sounds very interesting, looking forward to that as well!
Looks spectacular, good luck on it!
I look especially forward to the unification option. In my opinion, that was one thing that civ sorely missed.
Ok, in the last week, I've been bringing BUG online, and it's not really cooperating with the Equipment Screen. As soon as I figure out what's keeping the equipment screen from opening, we'll be ready to roll. I'm hoping to get it sorted out in the next couple of days.
Also, I've uploaded a new PDF. I've cleaned up a lot of the content. Put the new stuff in more easily readable tables, and I've included changes that I either forgot to include the first time around or have added since I last updated the PDF.
It also includes the list of new XML tags and files for this mod, so people who might want to use this as a base for their own mods can see what they can play with.
Among the changes made in recent days... I've included a number of new leaders for existing Civilizations such as Dido, Sejong, Ahuitzotl, Pachacuti, Abu Bakr, and some more. On top of that, I've included a new civ, Israel. With two leaders, David and Solomon. Their UU is the Slinger which is an Archer replacement that starts with Guerilla I. I haven't come up with a UB for them yet...
I've also added two new buildings and resources. Steel Mill and Automobile Plant, which give 1 source of Steel and Automobiles respectively. There's a max of 3 Steel Mills per Player, and a Max of 3 Auto Plants per Player and a Global Max of 10 Auto Plants in total (so players will have to try to build their 3 Auto Plants quickly before someone else does). Steel is now a required for Tanks, Modern Armor, Arties, Mobile Arties, Mobile SAM and all late era military ships. Automobiles give +1 Happiness, -1 Health, and +1 Production and +1 Commerce in All Cities.
I played a game a little while ago as Israel and ran AI autoplay for about 200 turns. I was amused to find that the nation's only Steel Mill had been built in Bethlehem
I can't take the waiting any longer!
Just came on to this, I am dumbfounded. It looks AMAZING!
How many civs are you planning on adding?
I'm not sure how many civs I'll add in total. Not many probably since I think we've got a good selection already. I want Polynesia, which means someone will have to make a nice Hokulea since I can't think of a better UU than one that allowed them to travel such vast distances at a time when nobody was even dreaming of it.
Also, I think I may just release tomorrow even if I can't get the equipment screen working just to finally get it out there even if I have to patch it on Thursday. I need feedback on balance issues since I've changed so much.
Can't wait any longer . Head exploding :suicide:.
My problem with a Galley UU for any civ is that it would be to underpowered.
How does your tech tree look like? Perhaps you can make Polynesia's UU a simple Carrack that is unlocked at an earlier tech than Optics?
As for Civs, I realize you want to keep it simple, so I say a good list would be this:
Yah, go ahead and release it tomorrow. That is a good idea. Even out your workload and perfect it's features rather than working on it all at once.
Actually, for the civs, to make it simple, I suggest adding one civ from every cultural group. It also makes it fair. For example, you could pick one from each cultural group here:
American civs: Polynesia (not really "American", but, eh)
Mediterranean civs: Israel or Berbers
European civs: Austria or Poland or Hungary
Middle Eastern civs: Assyria or Hittites or Seljuks
Asian civs: Tibet or Vietnam or Indonesia or Thailand
African civs: Nubia or Swahililand or Kongo or Hausa or Benin or too many to list here
You get the idea. Of course, choosing civs probably shouldn't be the most important part of this mod,obviously.
I'm not sure if adding one civ from each cultural group really works in the interest of fairness. Consider the map below which shows the countries that are represented are as their current political entities or some earlier empire. And indeed, there are least two more civs on the European map that actually overlap other civilizations already represented (Celts and HRE). If we're really concerned about fairness, what we ought to do is add more Pre-Columbian American civs and a lot more African civs.
I'm not particularly interested in fairness though, but I would like to see more of both. There's a reason why there's more European countries than just our Eurocentric bias. There's been a lot more groups that would fall under the category of a civilization as some kind of politically unified nation. Sure, the Celts don't really fall into this category, but whoever can't see the fun factor in playing as or against a bunch of long-haired, half-naked, screaming maniacs is a lost cause
I will not add any new Middle East/Mediterranean civs because I think they are, like Europe, already overrepresented.
What I am going to do though is get rid of the Native American civ and create two new civs... the Sioux and the Iroquois. The Dog Soldiers were Cheyenne and Totem Poles from the Pacific Northwest Indians, so both will be scrapped. The Sioux will get the Soldier's Lodge (which was not a physical structure but a military institution, but I can stretch it I think) and they will get a Horse Archer variant that I haven't named yet.
The Iroquois will get the Longhouse (of course) and a Brave that will replace Warriors and will be invisible in Forests.
And this isn't just about giving Native Americans a more just representation. It's also because both the Iroquois and Sioux were represented as their own civs in previous Civ games. And this mod is also about bringing back the sweetest aspects of Civ2 and Civ3.
I'd like to add more African civs, but they were often so politically decentralized that it's hard to find kingdoms that can be included. And those that did exist tend to be the least well-known at that. Hausa? Kanem? Bachwezi? Sure, they might have been important, but nobody's really ever heard of them... Ghana could work. Kongo could work. Zimbabwe is another one, but the Mutapa kingdom would probably better represent that, but Mutapa again just leaves people scratching their heads.
It's also a question of graphics too. There's a serious lack of African leaderheads, so it ties my hands a bit there.
This mod's looking really good. Can't wait to check it out.
There is a huge gap in Central Europe. We can fix that with Poland or Hungary, than we can leave Europe alone.
Don't forget the actual civilization of the americas further south! The Aztecs don't well represent the area, it's dominance occured very very late in it's history, as Spain came shortly after.
In my mod, I'm including the Zapotec as a second civ to the Aztec. I believe so should you...
As for the Andes, I believe I use the Moche as a second civ.
In Africa, I'd put some kind of unified Swahili state. They were the most advanced (aside from maybe Mali) at the time, and had trade relations with Arabs and Indians. And not to mention that the Greeks and Mayans are in the game, and Swahili is basically the same as them politically (citystates). Kanem and others are far to small to be added in Civ. Kongo might work, or Songhai if you don't mind adding another Western African civ.
Looks like a well-put-together yet sweeping mod!
I was wondering about the change to Hereditary Rule. No in the capital makes a certain amount of sense, however, it amounts to a free (primary effect of the) Globe Theatre without having to build either the 5 regular Theatres or the Globe itself--or even having to tech Drama (assuming that tech still exists)! Granted that the only thing I know to use the Globe for (I suppose it could be used for ) is drafting, and the capital isn't always ideal for that. But I did build the Globe in the capital in my last game because it was much closer to where the fighting would take place than the other cities I had initially thought of building it in.
May I ask what your rationale is with the no in the capital? Would, instead, additional or somewhat reduced in the capital not fit your plans?
Perhaps this model is of use to you for a Israelian UB?
I'd say, make it a replacement for the temple. Their religion must have been one of the earliest monotheistic ones, so it could be appropriate to do something with the temple.
The Monument? Or the various religious temples? The problem with the temples is that they aren't just one building. There's seven of them.
I think the Sanhedrin as a Courthouse replacement might hit the nail on the head. Ok, the Sanhedrin will get +2 Culture and +1 Happiness Per 20% Culture Rate. That makes it a Courthouse and a weak Theatre roled into one.
EDIT: I do wish we had more generic building graphics from the ancient, industrial, and modern eras.
Ah! This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. I've debated whether this might be too powerful. I personally haven't found it to be, but I'm sure that a better player will make better use of it. So I'm going to wait and see what people's experience is with it before I change it.
My rationale was basically that a centralized monarchy would make the people who inhabit the capital happier (at least politically), but you're right. A happiness boost rather than removing all unhappiness might be more appropriate.
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