Ask a Car Nut - Part Deux

[peter grimes]

@Hobbs - consider buying a low miles used car. Very often the manufacturer's warranty will carry over to the new owner. 10 years/100k miles is not uncommon these days. Check the warrantee and see what it covers. You will still have to put in somewhere between $.05 and $.10/mile in maintenance and upkeep even with a good warrantee. Best car I ever owned came in at $.05/mile, I bought the car at 149k and drove it to 225k. I still think about that car every day

Have any of you heard this recent episode of This American Life where they spend a month at a Chrysler dealership on Long Island? It's really interesting (no, really it is!). And there are things that they talk about that might be relevant to a new car search - particularly, the timing of the monthly quotas. Assuming, of course, that other dealerships also have to meet monthly quotas.

My father in law is a Chrysler salesman and I've been meaning to ask him about some of the things they talked about, but haven't yet had the chance.

Two relevant things to note:
If the sales are down for the month, and they need to hit their quota in the next day or two, they will make you VERY good deals - even below what the dealership paid to Chrysler for the car, since Chrysler will give the dealership a lump sum payment if they hit their quota. The dealership owner bought a couple of cars for family members just to make the quota. It occured to me that these are the low-miles cars I hear about that were "the dealer's wife's car".

Not sure how accurate it is, nor whether or not it applies to other makes, nor if they operate on a calendar month or if it's staggered between dealerships (dealer A is 5th to the 4th, dealer B is 10th to the 9th, etc).

Just something to think about...

 

[Formaldehyde]

How could that possibly be the case? Total costs (maintenance + insurance + depreciation) is pretty much always cheaper (or at least not more expensive) with an older car, so you always come out ahead financially by driving a given car into the ground.

At the end of its life cycle maintenance costs increase dramatically as the reliability decreases. That is why they aren't worth anything, and why you should try to buy the lowest mileage used car you can.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

@Hobbs - consider buying a low miles used car. Very often the manufacturer's warranty will carry over to the new owner. 10 years/100k miles is not uncommon these days. Check the warrantee and see what it covers. You will still have to put in somewhere between $.05 and $.10/mile in maintenance and upkeep even with a good warrantee. Best car I ever owned came in at $.05/mile, I bought the car at 149k and drove it to 225k. I still think about that car every day

Have any of you heard this recent episode of This American Life where they spend a month at a Chrysler dealership on Long Island? It's really interesting (no, really it is!). And there are things that they talk about that might be relevant to a new car search - particularly, the timing of the monthly quotas. Assuming, of course, that other dealerships also have to meet monthly quotas.

My father in law is a Chrysler salesman and I've been meaning to ask him about some of the things they talked about, but haven't yet had the chance.

Two relevant things to note:
If the sales are down for the month, and they need to hit their quota in the next day or two, they will make you VERY good deals - even below what the dealership paid to Chrysler for the car, since Chrysler will give the dealership a lump sum payment if they hit their quota. The dealership owner bought a couple of cars for family members just to make the quota. It occured to me that these are the low-miles cars I hear about that were "the dealer's wife's car".

Not sure how accurate it is, nor whether or not it applies to other makes, nor if they operate on a calendar month or if it's staggered between dealerships (dealer A is 5th to the 4th, dealer B is 10th to the 9th, etc).

Just something to think about...

I like that program and I'll check it out. Thanks!

If she has a full time job that's a bit different. But I'd still think twice about it. You can buy a car that is not cheap and still dependable for much less. But there will be the occasional maintenance costs.

Yes, she has full time employment and I realize that even a new car will have some maintenance issues.

What new cars are you considering?

Something small like a Chevy Cruz. It's important to me (at 6'2") that I be able to fit in the car. I'm not exceptionally tall by any means but I'm tall enough that I have found with some smaller cars I wind up with the steering wheel on my knees. My current car (a 95' Mercury Mystique) has this problem and it doesn't have an adjustable steering wheel.

We don't have kids and this is only for short commutes to work, so something small with good gas mileage that costs less than 20k is ideal.

You and Zelig have made some excellent points on the benefit of gently-used cars and I'll use those arguments again when we actually sit down to pick a car. However, I have brought up similar arguments before but this is not solely my decision to make and my wife is kind of set on a new car.

 

[Zelig]

At the end of its life cycle maintenance costs increase dramatically as the reliability decreases.

In my experience econoboxes and compact pickups are worth about $500 by then.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Something small like a Chevy Cruz. It's important to me (at 6'2") that I be able to fit in the car. I'm not exceptionally tall by any means but I'm tall enough that I have found with some smaller cars I wind up with the steering wheel on my knees. My current car (a 95' Mercury Mystique) has this problem and it doesn't have an adjustable steering wheel.

We don't have kids and this is only for short commutes to work, so something small with good gas mileage that costs less than 20k is ideal.

You and Zelig have made some excellent points on the benefit of gently-used cars and I'll use those arguments again when we actually sit down to pick a car. However, I have brought up similar arguments before but this is not solely my decision to make and my wife is kind of set on a new car.

Here is an example. This 2005 BMW 325i sedan with only 36K miles is selling for $12,970. It has all mod cons including leather seats.

And here is a 2010 328i with 45K miles for $15K.

 

[Zelig]

Here is an example. This 2005 BMW 325i sedan with only 36K miles is selling for $12,970. It has all mod cons including leather seats.

That must be nice, here even low-mileage cars of that age are going to be rusty unless they're strictly summer cars.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Rust hasn't really been much of an issue in the US for decades now.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That second BMW is really attractive.

Yeah, I don't see rust too often around here.

 

[Zelig]

Even in the northern US where they salt? Last couple cars I sold at 10-11 years of age in 2005/2006 were both falling apart from rust at that point even though they were mechanically fine.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I don't live in the Northern US and have never lived there so I wouldn't know.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Corrosion protection and eliminating areas where water can be trapped have largely eliminated rust problems in car sheet metal. Not sure why it is apparently still a major problem in parts of Canada.

This Canadian website recommends using an oil treatment that is sprayed on the underside of the car every year or two for the modest cost of $100-140 if you live in the areas of the country where rust is more common.

Or you can DIY:


Link to video.

 

[Borachio]

Here is an example. This 2005 BMW 325i sedan with only 36K miles is selling for $12,970. It has all mod cons including leather seats.

And here is a 2010 328i with 45K miles for $15K.

They're nice motors, that's for sure. But they don't have a reputation for being cheap to maintain. Unless things have really changed recently.

 

[Formaldehyde]

BMWs are by no means all that exotic and are more reliable than most cars, especially low end ones. While it may cost $10 more per hour for a competent mechanic compared to a mechanic who only works on American cars, they will typically require fewer repairs.

 

[Zelig]

I'm not really sure what you're saying...

Are you implying that low-end cars from Toyota are less reliable than high-end cars from Lexus?

Or are you comparing BMW to SAIPA and Dongfeng Motors?

Or are you implying that cars from BMW are more reliable than econoboxes from normal companies that make reliable cars?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Cars that cost more are typically more reliable than economy cars which use cheaper parts. This isn't rocket science. It is basic common sense. You get what you pay for.

 

[Zelig]

Cars that cost more are typically more reliable than economy cars which use cheaper parts.

I don't think there's any evidence of cars that cost more from a given manufacturer being any more reliable than economy cars from the same manufacturer.

From what I've seen it's pretty much the reverse, more expensive cars have more things to break down.

 

[Formaldehyde]

So now it's from the same manufacturer? When did I ever state that?

A car is just like any other manufactured goods. In general, $300 washing machines are simply not as good as $600 ones. It isn't just additional options that makes one twice as expensive.

But go right ahead and believe that your econobox is just as good of a car as one that costs much more to manufacture. That there is no difference in quality between a Ford Fiesta and a BMW 328i.

 

[Zelig]

So now it's from the same manufacturer? When did I ever state that?

Because it's not a meaningful difference otherwise. What's the point of knowing that a Lexus is more reliable than a Dongfeng if a Toyota is equally reliable as the Lexus?

But go right ahead and believe that your econobox is just as good of a car as one that costs much more to manufacture. That there is no difference in quality between a Ford Fiesta and a Ford Taurus, much less a BMW 328i.

Quality difference doesn't equate to reliability difference.

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

UK's ten most reliable cars: (100 average)
1 Honda Jazz 2.00
2 Mitsubishi Lancer 6.00
3 Vauxhall Agila 8.00
4 Toyota Yaris 13.00
5 Mazda MX-5 15.00
6 Suzuki Alto 15.00
7 CITROEN SAXO 18.00
8 Suzuki Liana 18.00
9 Honda HR-V 19.00
10 Hyundai Getz 20.00

UK's ten least reliable cars:
1 AUDI RS6 1137.00
2 BMW M5 695.00
3 Porsche 911 996 609.00
4 Mercedes-Benz V-Class 567.00
5 Bentley Continental GT 539.00
6 Mercedes-Benz CL 518.00
7 Mercedes-Benz GL 512.00
8 Mercedes-Benz SL 509.00
9 Audi Q7 475.00
10 Audi A6 Allroad 467.00

Ford Fiesta: 30.00
Ford Mondeo (closest Taurus equivalent: 66.00

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/
US News:
Ford Fiesta: 3.0/5
Ford Taurus: 3.5/5

 

[Formaldehyde]

I've never heard of ReliabilityIndex.com before. It's sponsored by one of those completely lame extended warranty services so it has no credibility. And what sort of scale is that? Are we really supposed to believe that the Honda Jazz is 300 times more reliable than a Porsche 911, which is 6 times more likely to break down than the average car?

According to your own site, the Ford Taurus has 4.5 stars for "reliability" while the Fiesta only has 3. You do realize that is the opposite scale from the other site. Right?

 

[Goodfella]

If I found someone's car keys on the street near my house, what should I do with them?