Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Eran of Arcadia, Jan 25, 2010.
if other people saw and handled the plates then the SP episode was wrong on that count
Do I have a soul? If so where is it and what does it do?
Well, we generally call what most people refer to as the soul, "spirit", and the soul consists of the spirit and the physical body.
I don't think one can really speak of its location, at least it is not physically accessible. But it is sort of your consciousness and the sum total of your knowledge and decisions.
I quoted this from some other thread.
I'm just curious, not looking for a fight, but how can you defend that idea? (Mormonism being less strange.)
We don't eat babies.
Actually, I don't know what was meant by this (not being weird). But something I've heard more about recently is that our detailed doctrines about the afterlife bring and hold more converts that most of our other doctrines. So, whether or not they're weird, apparently some of our key differences with mainstream Christianity are also what attract people to us.
Can you say what you would mean by weird?
Well, to an outsider at least, Mormon doctrine does seem "Stranger" than non-Mormon doctrine.
But of course people want to be God, this is natural human nature and doesn't really prove anything (Unless you mean something OTHER than the Mormon doctrine of Godhood.)
I don't even find it strange that God wants us to be like Him, for that matter.
Mormons. Flying Spaghetti Monsterism on steroids.
Another religious group that has so many scientific proof against it, that I seriously doubt if someone would ever in his right mind convert to that without heavy peer pressure.
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That wasn't the one I was thinking of, but I have met some people who said that was the clincher for them. No, what I usually hear as the pivotal point is our doctrine about being together as families after this life, and also how we account for those who do not hear about Jesus in this life (or who, for whatever reason, didn't have a real chance to accept the Gospel). Just the other day I had a client (I'm a therapist) who told me that she couldn't believe in Christianity because it taught that all the good people in this world who don't believe in Jesus are going to hell. I am not allowed to evangelize at work, so I could only smile and say that not all Christians believe that.
@Theov, if you are interested, I could hook you up with some nice people in your area who can tell you their conversion story. I can almost guarantee that it doesn't involve peer pressure. Message me if you're game. Basically I'd give you the contact info of your local LDS congregation, and I'll bet that the first person you talk to there who's a convert, didn't do so under duress.
Of course that whole "being together as families" part strongly disagrees with Christ's explicit teaching that there is no marriage in the resurrection.
So you'll have to talk to Hygro to get specifically what HE meant. I can only really offer my own testimony I guess.
I think he was talking about my explanation about the LDS view of judgment and the afterlife. If we assume that completion of some sort of ordinance (baptism?), and a belief in Christ is important for salvation, then there needs to be something in place for people who had no idea who Jesus was (if we don't make that assumption, whats the point in being Christian?). Mormons believe that spiritual progression continues after the grave, and that all who have ever lived will have the opportunity to accept or deny the gospel. That idea isn't so weird.
Are there some parts of LDS culture that are kinda weird? Hell yeah there are...but theres stuff with Catholicism and the Southern Baptist convention thats weird too, or any church really...we worship a zombie who turned water into booze after all.
To be fair, the gospel might be explicit. Best guess is that, by then, the quotation had played two rounds of telephone.
It's not even all that explicit, in the context of the quote. The whole point of the story was that Jesus was teaching that resurrection happens, not what the exact limitations on it are.
BTW: The idea that you can repent after your death isn't what I consider weird. What I consider weird is that a human being can eventually become God, that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers, the henotheist doctrines, exc.
Another question: Does the spiritual progression at the end of life ever end somewhere? Or is someone always advancing? If the latter, wouldn't everyone be saved eventually?
Speaking of that particular passage, what is the LDS doctrine on a widow who remarries? I hate to ask because I sound like the Pharisees but I'm genuinely curious--would she have two husbands in the afterlife?
She can't be *sealed in the Temple* to both men. She can marry whoever she wants, but she is wants to get remarried to another guy in the temple, they'd have to undo the first one.
How much can one change the term, "like the angels" who never mary? Adam was created as a single entity, yet able to "multiply". Logically if angels could multiply, why was man created? IMO it seems like humans will be given back their original form. It is only speculation though if we will still multiply, since there will be brought back at one time all who throughout human history will receive this new form, and not be cast into hell. Sorry to speculate on this thread, but would being asexual, in the after life sorta go against the "grain"?
Hate to appear to be cherry picking, but the fact people find this unbelievable, makes no sense to me.
So . . . Jesus is the Son of God, we can all agree. But isn't everyone who is alive also a child of God? Doesn't that also include those who were once angels, but fell? In other words, doesn't it make sense to say that Satan is also a child of God?
And what is the relationship between two individuals with the same parent? Generally, we call them siblings.
Those who through pride, or whatever, don't accept God's grace are limited in the degree to which they can spiritually progress.
Although, everyone who has ever lived, for certain definitions of "saved", will be saved.
You may know that we have a doctrine of different levels of "the afterlife," including the highest level, where God will be, and other lower levels, all the way down to the level where Satan and his minions will be. Those who are resurrected to the celestial (highest) glory, will have endless progression. Those who are resurrected to another level (for example, the terrestrial), will be able to progress within that level, but will not be able to progress beyond it.
Before the final judgment, everyone will have at least one bonafide chance to truly know what their choices are; nobody will be able to say "but that's not fair, I would have chosen the celestial glory if I had only known what was really going on." There will be ample opportunity before the resurrection for everyone to hear the truth - the full truth - and make a choice.
When you talk about "wouldn't everyone be saved eventually," you get into nuances of meaning that can include some other things besides the above.
LDS theology recognizes that resurrection is a free gift that will be given to all of God's children who came to this earth. We will all be saved from physical death, regardless of choices in this life. One third of God's children chose to follow Satan during the war in heaven, however, and they will never be born to mortal bodies. For them, salvation from death will not be necessary because they will never experience mortality.
Salvation from sin is conditional on our choices, starting with faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, and baptism. Those who accept this path will receive the full measure of what God wishes to offer all His children: an opportunity to live with Him, and become more like him, with an opportunity for eternal progression. If you are talking about that kind of salvation, then no, everyone will not eventually be saved.
We believe that mortality was one of the steps necessary to becoming more like our Heavenly Father. Those who missed that opportunity (who rebelled against God after hearing His plan during the premortal council in heaven, and consequently were cast out of heaven with Satan), won't ever be able to overcome that limitation. Without a body, there are parts of eternal progression that will always be beyond them.
We differ from other Christian faiths in our belief that the physical body is an absolutely essential part of our future existence. When we are dead and not yet resurrected, we will long for our bodies and we will rejoice when our spirits and bodies are reunited (to form a complete soul, as Eran explained earlier to Perfection's question). The resurrected body will be perfect, immortal, and will radiate glory (the intensity will match the individual's level of salvation, which is why Paul spoke of different levels of resurrection in Corinthians 15: 39-42; depending on your translation, it may say that there is a celestial resurrection, a terrestrial, and also additional levels that differ from each other as one star differs from another in brightness; this is what we call the telestial resurrection).
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