Ask an atheist (the second coming)

[Ziggy Stardust]

why? isn't the reverse also a possibility? You living the life that would lead you to said afterlife?

How? I have no theories which tell me how to get to that afterlife, and I'm not taking anyone's word for it. So how can I live my life to get there?

(I am assuming we are talking about the afterlife that is heaven and leave hell out of the picture for the sake of simplifying things and me assuming you lead a "good" life )

Ok. Tell me what's more important in this life than everlasting happiness in Heaven? Not a thing. You would spend your entire life dedicated to that everlasting happiness, instead of worrying about a job for instance.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well I am talking about the way distant future, when the sun runs out of juice, a black hole gets a little too close, a sun explodes, or the universe starts shrinking again.

Well, those are all separate problems, and so should be tackled based on priority. But yeah, I honestly have spent time thinking about the heat death of the universe. My current reasoning is that the solution (or lack thereof) is probably not visible to me now. But (shamlessly) I spend time reading about baby universes.

Most theists I know say they believe that, but then go on to live their live exactly as I do. As if there is no afterlife. So I'm not so sure whether they actually believe in the afterlife, or it's just something they tell themselves.

Because when you think about it, believing in an afterlife would mean drastic changes in how you live your life. Much more drastic than theists usually display.

Oh, yeah. Very much. But keep in mind people's behaviour despite things they know, know. Everyone 'believes' in diabetes, and 'knows' it leads to potential decades of suffering ... and yet.

 

[Leoreth]

Out of curiosity, any atheists and nonreligious readers here going to church for whatever reason this Christmas season? (Thinking of that recent news article about atheists bringing their kids to church for Christmas..)

I am, but I rather like the crowd (and atmosphere) at the local Episcopal church, so I show up there fairly regularly. Good music.

I'm an atheist and I'll definitely go to church on Christmas Eve. It's the traditional "everyone including non-believers or in-name-only Christians goes to church" day in Germany. It's part of my family's Christmas ritual and I like it. Plus, singing (liturgical) Christmas songs is fun, more so than what's typically sung in our Lutheran church, and it's the only day where there's actually enough people that it sounds good (we're the minority in a Catholic-dominated region, half of the usual attendants are made up of Orthodox Russo-German immigrants even).

I consider the bible readings and the sermon to be rather dry, clichedly obvious and dispensable, but I wouldn't want to miss the rest of it.

 

[mayor]

How? I have no theories which tell me how to get to that afterlife, and I'm not taking anyone's word for it. So how can I live my life to get there?

aah, but that is in the assumption you need to believe in an afterlife in order to reach it.
what if you could reach afterlife without believing in it?
In that case it is possible for you to live your life in a way that leads to said afterlife, is it not?

and you have theories of how the get to that afterlife, or at least they are accessible to you. You just don't believe those, right?

Ok. Tell me what's more important in this life than everlasting happiness in Heaven? Not a thing. You would spend your entire life dedicated to that everlasting happiness, instead of worrying about a job for instance.

I am a bit confused.. are you making a statement that the afterlife is more or less important than life on earth?

 

[peter grimes]

Is this not an assumption? Why does it have to be 65,000 years old? That is my question. You have seemed to conclude that no dinosaurs can be younger than that. Why?

My next point, to not leave you hanging, is the hypothetical I asked. What if a bone like that existed? Would it be dismissed as an abnormality and why?

Please don't say the mountain of evidence, I have already heard that answer. IMO it is conveniently hiding the....

No, it's not an assumption. It's not the case that no dinosaurs can be younger than that, rather that we don't encounter any. If dinosaurs hadn't died out (or evolved into birds) I'm sure we'd still see many forms today. But we don't. Because they died. It's not like there's a restriction placed on the dating of dinosaur bones by us - the dating of dinosaur bones shows that they by and large went extinct 65,000,000.

For the longest time this was a huge mystery - the dinosaurs are prolific in the strata throughout 100,000,000 years. Then at 65,000,000 years ago there's a literal line in the rocks above which we don't find dinosaurs. Sure, there are some stray finds here and there, but it's nothing compared to the number of finds below that line. So scientists reach the conlcusion - based on that mountain of evidence you reject - that dinosaurs by and large went extinct 65,000,000 years ago.

If a dinosaur skeleton were found that seemed, from stratigraphic context, to be only 20,000,000 years old it would be pretty shocking. There would be a ton of justifiable skepticism, different teams would try and imagine ways of explaining this outlier, labs would test and re-test, hunting for sources of contamination.

But it certainly wouldn't overturn everything else we already know about the history of life on earth, the evolution and diversity of species, the fact we too evolved from ancestors with whom, if you go back far enough, we share common ancestors with every other living creature on earth today.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

aah, but that is in the assumption you need to believe in an afterlife in order to reach it.

Well, you first need to believe the afterlife exists, so you can have criteria to get into it. If I don't know the criteria, how can I live my life to get into the afterlife.

what if you could reach afterlife without believing in it?
In that case it is possible for you to live your life in a way that leads to said afterlife, is it not?

It would be a fluke. But I would make no decisions in life which are influenced by it.

and you have theories of how the get to that afterlife, or at least they are accessible to you. You just don't believe those, right?

There are many stories of how to get into the afterlife. They don't all coincide. Any similarities to those and how I live my life are incidental. Do I pick the Christian Criteria, and if so which specific one? Maybe rather the Muslim or Buddhist way? The thing is, if I live according to the criteria of one, I'm breaking the criteria of another.

I am a bit confused.. are you making a statement that the afterlife is more or less important than life on earth?

Much, much, much more important. Eternity and all that jazz.

 

[mayor]

Well, you first need to believe the afterlife exists, so you can have criteria to get into it. If I don't know the criteria, how can I live my life to get into the afterlife.

matter of opinion, or believe if you will, if you ask me, I believe that you don't nessecarily need to believe in afterlive in order to reach it.

not knowing the criteria are less important than the actual way you live your life (at least that is how I see it (I've got the feeling we're getting back to the discussion of multiple interpretations ))
Even without knowing the criteria you can live by them, most of them are based on living you life with respect for others.

It would be a fluke. But I would make no decisions in life which are influenced by it.

welll, obviously.. if it was a fluke you wouldn't know it beforehand

There are many stories of how to get into the afterlife. They don't all coincide. Any similarities to those and how I live my life are incidental. Do I pick the Christian Criteria, and if so which specific one? Maybe rather the Muslim or Buddhist way? The thing is, if I live according to the criteria of one, I'm breaking the criteria of another.

like I said. the basis of all these criteria is respect for others. besides I don't belief that breaking 1 or a few criteria blocks the way to the afterlife. Some of the criteria are outdated anyway... I don't feel the need to follow those, don't think that'll block te way to the afterlife

Much, much, much more important. Eternity and all that jazz.

I'm actually quite surprised to hear that from an atheist.


NB. Afterlife is one of the things about my believe I have the most trouble with understanding. Everything I say are attempts to getter a better grasp on it myself. Heck, this whole discussion is

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm actually quite surprised to hear that from an atheist.

Mind that I am arguing from the perspective there is an afterlife. I don't believe there is one, so I'm not bothered at all. If I did believe in an afterlife I would spend my entire life making sure I get there. Since this life is finite, and the afterlife eternal it is much more important. If you believe in it.

If I place myself in your position, I'd be scared as hell (pun intended). You seem to believe in afterlife, but not in a set criteria to get there. For you there's an eternity at stake and only uncertainty about how to get there. Since you don't seem to be scared to death (again ... intended) I don't believe you believe in an afterlife, or you do but haven't thought it through.

 

[warpus]

Well I am talking about the way distant future, when the sun runs out of juice, a black hole gets a little too close, a sun explodes, or the universe starts shrinking again.

You really don't see any purpose in life because the Universe will start shrinking at some point in the far future..? (which I don't think is true at all anyway)

Do you refuse to watch TV shows because one day there will be a series finale and the whole thing will be over?

In that case it is possible for you to live your life in a way that leads to said afterlife, is it not?

Yeah, but.. How am I (as an atheist) supposed to know what sort of life to lead to reach the afterlife?

There are countless of religions out there claiming some sort of an arterlife. They each claim different things about it and none of them have any sort of evidence that their afterlife is real and the other ones aren't.

It's impossible to live your life based on the dogma of a dozen religions, all at once. And what if it is some minor or even extinct religion was right about the afterlife? Or none of them and the afterlife is something entirely different, if it exists? It makes it utterly impossible to do what you propose.

 

[mayor]

Mind that I am arguing from the perspective there is an afterlife. I don't believe there is one, so I'm not bothered at all. If I did believe in an afterlife I would spend my entire life making sure I get there. Since this life is finite, and the afterlife eternal it is much more important. If you believe in it.

If I place myself in your position, I'd be scared as hell (pun intended). You seem to believe in afterlife, but not in a set criteria to get there. For you there's an eternity at stake and only uncertainty about how to get there. Since you don't seem to be scared to death (again ... intended) I don't believe you believe in an afterlife, or you do but haven't thought it through.

nice puns

yes I believe in afterlife and have thought it through, but, as a I said, it is, for me, the most difficult part of my believe.
I'm indeed not afraid as hell for death p) for I know/believe I'll reach the (good) afterlife the way I live my life currently no matter in what form it will manifest itself. maybe I'll find out someday (before I die) maybe not

For me, God, hasn't got a checklist on which he checks if you have accumulated enough "points". If you live you life with good inentions I believe you reach eternal happiness.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Well, all I can say that if you're right, I hope you're right

 

[mayor]

Well, all I can say that if you're right, I hope you're right

hehe, same here.. would be a total bummer if it turns out my believes are false

 

[warpus]

hehe, same here.. would be a total bummer if it turns out my believes are false

Not really. You wouldn't even know You wouldn't be around to get depressed about it.

 

[El_Machinae]

Do you refuse to watch TV shows because one day there will be a series finale and the whole thing will be over?

It's why I never watched Lost. Because I knew it wouldn't really go anywhere.

 

[mayor]

Not really. You wouldn't even know You wouldn't be around to get depressed about it.

while I was typing I wondered who would make that comment

 

[El_Machinae]

Unless you're only correct about God hating blasphemy, and punishes you for eternity for worshiping false gods!

 

[Ayatollah So]

If you can pick a different path, then how can your friend predict which one you're going to take? Can he read your mind?

No need. He can read my face. Again, being able to do another thing doesn't mean that there's any probability that I will.

 

[Maniacal]

It's why I never watched Lost. Because I knew it wouldn't really go anywhere.

I'm glad I didn't watch it either, in kind of seems like a scam now.

 

[bathsheba666]

I'm glad I didn't watch it either, in kind of seems like a scam now.

Let's hope this universe doesn't turn out the same way...

 

[warpus]

No need. He can read my face. Again, being able to do another thing doesn't mean that there's any probability that I will.

He can look at your face and predict with 100% accuracy what you are going to do? Every single time? You are going to have to introduce to me this magical friend of yours