Blackwater Murderers Go Free On Technicality

[Patroklos]

Any member of a PMC is inherently not a "noncombattant"

Probably not in the mythical self imagined definitions of words you use that also means the Belgrano was not a legitimate target, but in the English language and the laws that exist in the real world, PMCs are inherently noncombatants.

Which is an irrelevant distinction anyway, as the groups we are talking about have no legal abilty to attack anyone, noncombatant or otherwise.

 

[useless]

Quote from Patroklos: "Screw 'em natives we're american!" True quote btw

 

[nonconformist]

Probably not in the mythical self imagined definitions of words you use that also means the Belgrano was not a legitimate target, but in the English language and the laws that exist in the real world, PMCs are inherently noncombatants.

Which is an irrelevant distinction anyway, as the groups we are talking about have no legal abilty to attack anyone, noncombatant or otherwise.

I thought you Yanks were all about Illegal Combattants?

Oh well, if they do end up lynched from lamposts, I guess that's what US guidelines call "collateral damage"?

 

[Patroklos]

I thought you Yanks were all about Illegal Combattants?

The only illegal combatants in Iraq is anyone who attacks the legitimate democratically elected Iraqi government or its allies without the sanction a nation state who has officially declared hostilities against that same Iraqi state.

Blackwater do not qualify as combatants one way or the other, any more than your local mall security guard qualifies as a combatant.

Oh well, if they do end up lynched from lamposts, I guess that's what US guidelines call "collateral damage"?

Its not collatoral if that is your primary objective (or only objective). You realize this, that the people you profess solidarity with are in fact in the business of maximizing civilian death, right?

 

[warpus]

Oh man, this hodgepodge of definitions in order to justify bs is making my head spin

 

[aelf]

It's the same arrogance as usual. All I can say is, enjoy your next terrorist attack. This is like live Greek tragedy.

This world gets more and more entertaining...

 

[nonconformist]

The only illegal combatants in Iraq is anyone who attacks the legitimate democratically elected Iraqi government or its allies without the sanction a nation state who has officially declared hostilities against that same Iraqi state.

Blackwater do not qualify as combatants one way or the other, any more than your local mall security guard qualifies as a combatant.



Its not collatoral if that is your primary objective (or only objective). You realize this, that the people you profess solidarity with are in fact in the business of maximizing civilian death, right?

So, I assume every US Company is assigned a linguistics professor now to justify warcrimes

 

[Patroklos]

No, but you could use one to make posts that make sense.

What, no more praise for killing civilians or pouring glory on groups that spend their whole day planning on market bombings?

 

[nonconformist]

I don't beleive I ever glorified the US Army?

 

[Patroklos]

Apparently you need a comedian as well.

 

[nonconformist]

I'm glad you find the situation so hilarious.
Then again, you can afford to, when you use standoff weapons, and the risk to yourself is minimal.

 

[Patroklos]

Thats an interesting bit of self projection there, as your the only one who as made a joke. A very bad one.

Is this how your threads normally go, you get owned via facts and common sense and then pretend you are a troll as per your signature? I mean, there is this thread and the Belgrano thread, I see a trend.

But I repeat my question, as it is very much in my intrest to continue this thread on topic:

What, no more praise for killing civilians or pouring glory on groups that spend their whole day planning on market bombings?

 

[GinandTonic]

Probably not in the mythical self imagined definitions of words you use that also means the Belgrano was not a legitimate target, but in the English language and the laws that exist in the real world, PMCs are inherently noncombatants.

Which is an irrelevant distinction anyway, as the groups we are talking about have no legal abilty to attack anyone, noncombatant or otherwise.

Pat, if fairness anyone driving round in an armoured land cruiser with a .50 on the roof, and a .45 and m16, wearing a flack jacket and a tin hat is not by any normal definition of the term a non-combatant.

 

[nonconformist]

Anyone stupid enough to go into a hostile country as a member of an orgfanisation which isn't an NGO pretty much has it coming FWIW.

 

[MobBoss]

I have yet to see any 'facts' provided in regards to the 'allowing them to clean up' thing you keep saying....

Who exactly was allowed to 'cleaned up' the crime scene?

Still waiting for proof of this....

 

[JollyRoger]

So if there are dead bodies around and the survivors are noncombatants, wouldn't the deaths be non-combat related and thus murder, absent some justification that hasn't been presented here?

 

[nonconformist]

Jesus Christ, I think he's got it!

 

[Berzerker]

First you bring up numbers.

Then complain when I argue that number.

Then you bring up the number again.

I didn't complain about you arguing over numbers, I said it was a pointless argument. I said you started arguing over numbers instead of answering the question, and you didn't answer the question.

Oh I dont think they knew at all. It wasnt exactly public knowledge you know.

Wasn't public knowledge here, but I'm sure the Iraqis in the vicinity knew people were being abused. I doubt everyone who escaped or was released kept quiet, but how can you even logically make the argument that the Abu Ghraib photos was worse than letting these guys walk when these guys haven't walked quite yet? We haven't seen the blowback yet, we might be able to buy our way out of some of it but there's gonna be Iraqis who see these guys walk and seek revenge. Thats just human nature.

Not at all. I am arguing that what you allege in regards to how this effects the situation in Iraq pales in comparison to what Abu Graib did.

We wont know that for a while, Abu Ghraib was especially bad, thats why I used it as an example. Now you've turned my example into the standard instead of proving why my assumption that violence will likely result if these guys walk is specious.

You need to remember that the rule of law, as you put it...goes two ways. This story is proof of that.

Proof to the Iraqis who lost loved ones? I dont recall any "rule of law" that says accused murderers (or manslaughter, or warcrime) can be given immunity for admitting to their crimes. Thats anything but the rule of law...

I dont care about 'history' what do you have from the current situation in Iraq that supports this at all?

Any contractors been hunted down and assassinated in the USA that we dont know of?

They haven't walked away yet, they're still heading for the door. If they do walk it would not surprise me if an Iraqi or more went after them. If coming here is too hard, they might target our guys still over there. Yes, I believe these guys walking will likely help enemy recruitment.

You know something we dont?

Who is "we"? I know something about human nature, ever hear of revenge?

Sure its going to have a negative effect, but I think given the length of time its taken to get to this point, its going to be negligable.

There isnt going to be mass assassinations over it. Thats just over-reaction.

You're sure its gonna have an negative effect but you're also sure no one will seek revenge? I never said mass assassinations... I said I wouldn't be surprised if some of our people over there get assassinated.

There you go bringing up numbers again.

Mass assassinations is your invention. You didn't answer the question again, you didn't even argue against my numbers (again). I'll repeat it:

They're in the process of walking, how can you say its effect is long gone?

They may go up a bit sure....but I dont think its going to cause violence.

Revenge has played a significant role in the history of the world

 

[JollyRoger]

Perhaps they had to kill the Iraqis to save their beloved pets.

 

[MobBoss]

Wasn't public knowledge here, but I'm sure the Iraqis in the vicinity knew people were being abused. I doubt everyone who escaped or was released kept quiet, but how can you even logically make the argument that the Abu Ghraib photos was worse than letting these guys walk when these guys haven't walked quite yet?

I am not sure anyone 'escaped' as you allege, or was even released. Do you have proof of this or are just making another assumption.

We haven't seen the blowback yet, we might be able to buy our way out of some of it but there's gonna be Iraqis who see these guys walk and seek revenge. Thats just human nature.

Its also human nature to be apathetic after time has passed. The actual event this resulted from was awhile ago.

We wont know that for a while, Abu Ghraib was especially bad, thats why I used it as an example. Now you've turned my example into the standard instead of proving why my assumption that violence will likely result if these guys walk is specious.

Tell you what. When those blackwater guys get assassinated you can claim victory. Hows that?

But until actual 'blowback' and violence happens? Not so much.

They haven't walked away yet, they're still heading for the door. If they do walk it would not surprise me if an Iraqi or more went after them.

It would to me because there isnt any history of that happening at all. It would be a first.

If coming here is too hard, they might target our guys still over there. Yes, I believe these guys walking will likely help enemy recruitment.

/whatever.

Who is "we"? I know something about human nature, ever hear of revenge?

Ever hear of apathy?

You're sure its gonna have an negative effect but you're also sure no one will seek revenge? I never said mass assassinations... I said I wouldn't be surprised if some of our people over there get assassinated.

Like I said, feel free to claim victory when it happens. But dont hold your breath.

They're in the process of walking, how can you say its effect is long gone?

Because I dont think this is the hot topic you think it is.