Boycott Halal

[Defiant47]

This doesn't really help me out. You seemed to be suggesting that the three religions couldn't possibly be worshipping the same God if they held inconsistent views on Her. If A thinks B has a son, but C thinks B doesn't have a son, that doesn't mean that A & C aren't both talking about B. It just means that at least one of them is wrong.

Yeah, as an atheist, I can think of them as obviously separate theoretical constructs with just a lot of overlap. Muslims give God features that Christians don't, and since both faith 'defines' their gods, that's just fine.

If I believed in either entity, then it would be simpler (and probably more correct) to say they both worship the same god, but that there're a series of mistakes being made in their conceptions. I mean, I love my aunt despite the fact that she had an affair. My uncle loves her, not knowing that she did. We both love the same person. But that requires her existence.

I now completely understand the point you guys were trying to make.

So there are actually at least 3 Gods that pranked Abraham into almost killing his son?

Actually made me laugh out loud. Troll god.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Halal
is it meat you're looking for

That was so bad

It is weird how the New Testament allows that which once was forbidden

Yes it is

and then suddenly God changes his mind and forbids them again.

So you have no issues with God changing his mind once. It's just when he does it again it becomes "weird".

Brings that well-known quote to mind:
“I contend that we both think religions are weird. I just think of one more religion as weird than you do. When you understand why you think all the other religions are weird, you will understand why I think yours is too.”

 

[JollyRoger]

It seems some religions get weirder and weirder the more that its proponents try to explain away the weirdness.

 

[Borachio]

I agree. If ever I start a new religion, the nearest I get to dogma will be smiling benignly and nodding enigmatically.

 

[Arakhor]

With Akenatism I actually mean the religious beliefs of this fellow. ...

Furthermore, what would you consider as not being montheistic "in the usual sense of the term"?

I thought you might have meant Akhenaten, though of course you might accept the story that Joseph's time in Egypt was what prompted this revisionism.

I understand that Tengriism is a mixture of animal/nature spirits and more typical polytheistic deities. I'm not sure how you define that as monotheistic at all.

 

[classical_hero]

It seems some religions get weirder and weirder the more that its proponents try to explain away the weirdness.

It is amazing how stupid some people are. God clearly states that there will be consequences when you do certain things and yet people complain when God does punish those who do those things, yet he is clear in what he said. People complain about the suffering in this world, yet God did say that if you disobey him, there will be punishment for said actions. The only reason it seems weird is that you refuse to listen to what it says.

 

[JollyRoger]

God clear? Not if you are attributing the Bible completely to him.

 

[Defiant47]

It is amazing how stupid some people are. God clearly states that there will be consequences when you do certain things and yet people complain when God does punish those who do those things, yet he is clear in what he said. People complain about the suffering in this world, yet God did say that if you disobey him, there will be punishment for said actions. The only reason it seems weird is that you refuse to listen to what it says.

Oh, so true Christians do not and have never suffered in this world? Or is it just that non-believers will definitely suffer, but then maybe also a bunch of Christians here and there?

 

[bhsup]

I am just not getting this whole 'different Gods' thing. The -only- way you all could possibly think they are different Gods is if you think that human perception actually altars the very fabric of what God is. Which, hey, I guess that's an argument to make, but I certainly don't accept that.

So.... it's however many thousands of years ago....

God comes up to Abraham, has a chat, makes some promises. Abraham has some kids. Throughout the centuries these kids and their descendants form three of the great religions of the world as God looks on. Each of the religions has a different take on some of God's actions and words. Did God suddenly split into three different Gods because that's what the descendants decided? And if that is the case, did God split again after Martin Luther? Or even after the Council of Jerusalem? Or the Nicene Council?

 

[Formaldehyde]

It seems that some Abrahamic gods are more equal than others. This can apparently be seen by some in the number of tornadoes or hurricanes a particular area experiences compared to another.

 

[timtofly]

I am just not getting this whole 'different Gods' thing. The -only- way you all could possibly think they are different Gods is if you think that human perception actually altars the very fabric of what God is. Which, hey, I guess that's an argument to make, but I certainly don't accept that.

So.... it's however many thousands of years ago....

God comes up to Abraham, has a chat, makes some promises. Abraham has some kids. Throughout the centuries these kids and their descendants form three of the great religions of the world as God looks on. Each of the religions has a different take on some of God's actions and words. Did God suddenly split into three different Gods because that's what the descendants decided? And if that is the case, did God split again after Martin Luther? Or even after the Council of Jerusalem? Or the Nicene Council?

It is either because they are selfish, or they only see God through their respective life experiences.

There will only be one God and one Messiah, unless "of course" humans say otherwise.

 

[metatron]

tl;dr

I srongly suggest vegetarian diet...

Yeah that.

I'm as ready to tell religious communities to stfu regarding any kind of special treatment or extra set of rules or exceptions etc. as the next dyed in the wool leftist, secular etatist.
But this business with the slaughtering practices is starting to bore me.

Typically the people obsessing about this are conservatives - going on and on about the relative cruelty of different ways of systematically pushing millions of animals through a grossly inhumane life and a slightly less inhumane death.
The very same conservatives that at any other opportunity display nothing but hate, contempt and mockery for those "damn hippie environmentalists" and their "snowy owls" (or any other strawman - they have a million of them).

 

[classical_hero]

Oh, so true Christians do not and have never suffered in this world? Or is it just that non-believers will definitely suffer, but then maybe also a bunch of Christians here and there?

God warned Adam that if he disobeyed God, then death will enter the world. Along with death came a whole host of other nasties. There is general suffering because of Adam's sin, since it brought judgement from God upon all of mankind. There is specific judgement on specific cases of sin. Before Adam sinned, the world was very good, now we are living in a cursed world and with that comes all these problems we see.

 

[Camikaze]

Do you have any scientific studies you could cite which demonstrate the causal relationship between sin and suffering? If they are directly related, presumably this is well documented.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I am just not getting this whole 'different Gods' thing. The -only- way you all could possibly think they are different Gods is if you think that human perception actually altars the very fabric of what God is. Which, hey, I guess that's an argument to make, but I certainly don't accept that.

So.... it's however many thousands of years ago....

God comes up to Abraham, has a chat, makes some promises. Abraham has some kids. Throughout the centuries these kids and their descendants form three of the great religions of the world as God looks on. Each of the religions has a different take on some of God's actions and words. Did God suddenly split into three different Gods because that's what the descendants decided? And if that is the case, did God split again after Martin Luther? Or even after the Council of Jerusalem? Or the Nicene Council?

When I hear different denominations talk about this God they all attribute different characteristics to it, which makes it a different God to me.

It is amazing how stupid some people are. God clearly states that there will be consequences when you do certain things and yet people complain when God does punish those who do those things, yet he is clear in what he said. People complain about the suffering in this world, yet God did say that if you disobey him, there will be punishment for said actions. The only reason it seems weird is that you refuse to listen to what it says.

I agree. The quran is quite clear about those things. So tell me CH, why are you so amazingly stupid?

And you forgot to explain why it's weird that God changed his mind twice, but it's not when he does it once. Are you too stupid to explain your idea of weirdness?

 

[Tahuti]

I understand that Tengriism is a mixture of animal/nature spirits and more typical polytheistic deities. I'm not sure how you define that as monotheistic at all.

There are certain variations which are close to polytheism, but Tengriism by definition refers to one supreme sky god, who is so powerful to essentially to override essentially any other "deities". While it is true that Tengriism recognizes other "gods", these are arguably more comparable to the Christian conceptions of angels than actual separate gods like in the Greek pantheon. Hence the scare quotes. Actually, you are the first one I've encountered to suggest Tengriism is primarily a polytheistic as opposed to monotheistic religion.

There are some residual polytheistic elements in Judaism as well. YHWH was originally a sky-god in an ancient Semitic Pantheon (interestingly, almost all pantheons that had a sky-god made the sky-god as its leader, and Tengi was also a sky-god) and only gradually became the one deity.

 

[Farm Boy]

tl;dr



Yeah that.

I'm as ready to tell religious communities to stfu regarding any kind of special treatment or extra set of rules or exceptions etc. as the next dyed in the wool leftist, secular etatist.
But this business with the slaughtering practices is starting to bore me.

Typically the people obsessing about this are conservatives - going on and on about the relative cruelty of different ways of systematically pushing millions of animals through a grossly inhumane life and a slightly less inhumane death.
The very same conservatives that at any other opportunity display nothing but hate, contempt and mockery for those "damn hippie environmentalists" and their "snowy owls" (or any other strawman - they have a million of them).

So do the hippies. Is this fun, shall we continue?

 

[metatron]

So do the hippies. Is this fun, shall we continue?

Not sure what you're getting at.

We always have to be cruel to animals and be it just by distressing them out of their habitat - cause it happens to be our habitat.
After that everything is kind of a matter of degrees really. And that's fine. Some common rules may be justifiable but for the most part everybody has to make up their own mind.

Being generally casual (to say the least) about animal welfare while obsessing about this slaughtering practise business strikes me as disingenuous.
Not saying that you do that. I wouldn't know. As i said: tl; dr.

And sure, if one of dem snowy owel protectors is wearing throw-away mink undies and lives largely on big macs, that strikes me as disingenuous too.

 

[Farm Boy]

Actually, they tend to be more likely to do things like "eat organically" while stressing about the environment. They'll often even pay a premium to have food that's produced, with fossil fuels, in a wasteful fashion and then shipped in the most wasteful fashion as well so that it's "fresh." I, possibly like you, would be less annoyed with them if they just came out and admitted that they have hedonistic and masturbatory diet practices, rather than attempting to dress it up in some deeply flawed and self-righteous lie about it being for anything resembling "sustainability."

 

[metatron]

Actually, they tend to be more likely to do things like "eat organically" while stressing about the environment. They'll often even pay a premium to have food that's produced, with fossil fuels, in a wasteful fashion and then shipped in the most wasteful fashion as well so that it's "fresh." I, possibly like you, would be less annoyed with them if they just came out and admitted that they have hedonistic and masturbatory diet practices, rather than attempting to dress it up in some deeply flawed and self-righteous lie about it being for anything resembling "sustainability."

In my view the "useful" quality of some (some others are just nonsense) organic foods is that they actually have a higher quality - of course that comes at a price and an expenditure of ressources. The thing that's supposed to be "sustained" is public health.
Believing this would also help the environment may be true in some cases but very probably is not true in many, if not most, cases.

I'm also reasonably confident that my organic Dutch tomatoes are still less ressource intensive than, say, a steak.