Brexit Thread III - How to instantly polarise your country without even trying

[Arakhor]

Leading on from here, now we have a new thread for the ongoing Brexit fiasco discussions. I'm sure we'll be able to fill many, many pages before this whole mess is over.

 

[Arent11]

So, what's the current situation? There was a referendum, yes? & then everyone began to argue. The EU was pissed, Great Britain was pissed & they are not talking anymore with each other

 

[Broken_Erika]

Best Thread Title Ever.

 

[Lexicus]

Yeah, what is going on over there exactly? Last I heard it seemed like the Tories were trying to negotiate some kind of nonsense deal where the UK leaves the EU but still retains all the benefits of EU membership?

 

[Arakhor]

Yeah, what is going on over there exactly? Last I heard it seemed like the Tories were trying to negotiate some kind of nonsense deal where the UK leaves the EU but still retains all the benefits of EU membership?

Otherwise known as "having your cake and eating it". So far, hardly anyone knows what is going on - the Government still insists on acting as if it is sovereign, rather than Parliament, any news that does escape is immediately pounced upon by most sides and promptly excoriated for whatever reason and all that can be relied upon so far is that the Government cannot be relied upon currently.

The whole mess is still being used as a proxy for the ongoing Tory civil war, nearly three years after David Cameron first promised it in an attempt to pacify Tory extremists and we now have less than a year remaining if (a) we want a deal before the March 2019 deadline and (b) the various EU powers are to be allowed time to ratify whatever deal results from the negotiations.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

But on the bright side - bent bananas and blue passports!

 

[Lohrenswald]

EU is terrible and leaving it is good

 

[Arakhor]

You say that about everything, Lohrens.

 

[Lohrenswald]

no

 

[Arakhor]

If you say so.

 

[Arent11]

EU is terrible and leaving it is good

Well, was there a referendum about joining the EU? I mean, a fusion of two or more countries is a pretty
big step. If you want to do something like that you should better legitimize it. Otherwise, if your idea turns
out to be a bad one, you will be blamed & you won't be able to point at the people & say: "You guys wanted it".
Then you'll take the blame & you alone.

 

[Hrothbern]

Well, was there a referendum about joining the EU? I mean, a fusion of two or more countries is a pretty
big step. If you want to do something like that you should better legitimize it. Otherwise, if your idea turns
out to be a bad one, you will be blamed & you won't be able to point at the people & say: "You guys wanted it".
Then you'll take the blame & you alone.

And using the "will of the people" as scapegoat to save your own ass ?
If you are responsible, you are responsible up to your ass.

And looking back at my country.
In 1944 the Benelux was founded by the governments in exile in London of the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. Referendum ? How ?
In 1951 the Coal and Steel community was founded with these 3 plus France, Germany, Italy. Solely to prevent a resource war risk between Germany and France directly and indirectly from disputes on Coal/Steel capacities. Again.. A referendum ? Really
And now we get a dozen more historical EU moments, I am too lazy for to list up, where more topic bound European communities are founded, that merge in steps. One of the important issues self sustainable food production from agricultural innovations, to be independent of US wheat.
That would add up for my country to 12 or so referendums since 1944...... huh... do you really think our population would appreciate every 4-6 year a full normal election and a referendum on top ?

 

[Lohrenswald]

Well, was there a referendum about joining the EU? I mean, a fusion of two or more countries is a pretty
big step. If you want to do something like that you should better legitimize it. Otherwise, if your idea turns
out to be a bad one, you will be blamed & you won't be able to point at the people & say: "You guys wanted it".
Then you'll take the blame & you alone.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at

 

[Kyriakos]

Instead of another brexit thread i'd prefer the babe thread to return

 

[Synobun]

Instead of another brexit thread i'd prefer the babe thread to return

A photo of Theresa May gets posted every now and then in these discussions. That should suffice.

 

[Kyriakos]

A photo of Theresa May gets posted every now and then in these discussions. That should suffice.

You are sick

 

[FriendlyFire]

EU Greater Germany is terrible and leaving it is good

Fixed
Maybe its time to make two different EUs, well call one the Central powers and the other the Entente !
What could possibly go wrong ?

Well at least Germany hasnt started another world war.

 

[metatron]

Yeah, what is going on over there exactly? Last I heard it seemed like the Tories were trying to negotiate some kind of nonsense deal where the UK leaves the EU but still retains all the benefits of EU membership?

Well, the UK collectively or at least Conservatives specifically come up with ever new imagined scenarios of saving and redemption, largely fueled by nationalist selfimportant delusion.

The thing is basically this: Leaving is a terrible idea that comes with a huge cost.
The EU has all the leverage in negotiating a deal (to only sort of half leave) and can basically extract concessions from the UK corresponding to some large fraction of said to-be-averted cost.
This, obviously, is highly humiliating.
So the entirety of UK politics has essentially devolved to a non-stop carousel of everybody switching between denying one of the above premises, then the other, then the next, then start over...​

Essentially they are the dudebro at the ER who has to have some item removed from his anus and who used to insult us on a regular basis.
We're overcharging them and giggle a lot while we do.
We do this because omg hello this is reality and we're not running a charity that reforms unsufferable jocks in 90 minutes.

 

[Silurian]

Otherwise known as "having your cake and eating it". So far, hardly anyone knows what is going on - the Government still insists on acting as if it is sovereign, rather than Parliament, any news that does escape is immediately pounced upon by most sides and promptly excoriated for whatever reason and all that can be relied upon so far is that the Government cannot be relied upon currently.

The whole mess is still being used as a proxy for the ongoing Tory civil war, nearly three years after David Cameron first promised it in an attempt to pacify Tory extremists and we now have less than a year remaining if (a) we want a deal before the March 2019 deadline and (b) the various EU powers are to be allowed time to ratify whatever deal results from the negotiations.

The government wants the cake as well as eating it because the government is split.
Even the Brexiteers appear to be divided; David Davis Brexiter Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union "Nobody has ever pretended this would be simple or easy," whilst Liam Fox Secretary of State for International Trade states “The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history."
As I noted in the other thread the government is now stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If the government was to walkaway from the Brexit negotiations at this stage it would split the Conservative party and the pact with the DUP would end.
Labour would be in power shortly afterwards after the no confidence vote.
They most likely will be in this postion until next summer.
After that they will have to show that it was the EU rather than them but it is likely that there still would be an election which they would loose.

Support for Brexit and the conservative party is concentrated in the old. Before the snap election was called there was a possibility of some conservative MPs being removed and By elections being held because the party was busing in young activists during the 2015 elctions but not recording it as a local election expense. There are limits on local spending in UK elections.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39865801
Older people are less willing and able to go knocking on doors and delivering leaflets and the use of bussing of young activists has now to be carefully controlled as they can not campaign on local issues or the cost of the bus and other expenses be recorded as a local expense.

 

[Arent11]

And using the "will of the people" as scapegoat to save your own ass ?
If you are responsible, you are responsible up to your ass.

But that's the point. If you don't ask the "people" then you are responsible "up to your ass".

And looking back at my country.
In 1944 the Benelux was founded by the governments in exile in London of the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. Referendum ? How ?
In 1951 the Coal and Steel community was founded with these 3 plus France, Germany, Italy. Solely to prevent a resource war risk between Germany and France directly and indirectly from disputes on Coal/Steel capacities. Again.. A referendum ? Really
And now we get a dozen more historical EU moments, I am too lazy for to list up, where more topic bound European communities are founded, that merge in steps. One of the important issues self sustainable food production from agricultural innovations, to be independent of US wheat.
That would add up for my country to 12 or so referendums since 1944...... huh... do you really think our population would appreciate every 4-6 year a full normal election and a referendum on top ?

Referenda should obviously be held if something alters basic elements of the constitution. That is not the case in all, but in some of your examples.