Brexit Thread V - The Final Countdown?!?

[EnglishEdward]

And the Brexiteers are as uniform as they are vocal in their desire to roll every single one of these restrictions upon commerce back, no?

I am pleased to refer you to your fellow Remainer's sentence.

This was not helped by different Brexiters saying different things."

I would simply note that the views, on deregulation and cutting taxes etc, of the conservative politicians
in favour of Leave vary; and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Leave voters as a whole.

The point of Leaving the EU is so that the UK peoples (including Remain voters, Leave voters and non voters)
can debate options and make decisions without having that pre-empted by membership of the European Union.

Sadly Theresa May's greatly misguided persuit of a Brexit in Name only deal has precluded such discussions.

 

[really]

"Abusive trade"

Meaning people in Ireland might actually benefit from and want free trade than allowed by the protectionist and anti-free market EU.

In any event Iteland amounts to exactly squat all for total EU trade so why get upset at the thought of Irish people living better and being able to afford more for their money? It is, and always has been, all a nonissue stirred up by criminals like Juncker to try to make up excuses for not having fair trading agreements with the UK because he wants to put ish the UK. He knows others will be tempted to follow as the EU really is that dictatorial and unpopular so he wants to try to sabotage the UK. It won't work.

As you point out Ireland is a small economy.
There is no way we could negotiate trade deals as good as we have with the EU.

I'm not sure if you have noticed but Ireland has been doing relatively well over the past few decades - being in the EU is a big part of that.

Separately the British government has awarded two big and one smaller contract to provide extra shipping capacity in the event of a no deal the two big contracts went big established Danish and French companies.
The smaller one went to a British company that doesn't own any ferries, has never operated one and has only existed for two years.

The government skipped European public procurement rules saying that this is an unforseen emergency.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46714984

 

[EnglishEdward]

Separately the British government has awarded two big and one smaller contract to provide extra shipping capacity in the event of a no deal the two big contracts went big established Danish and French companies.
The smaller one went to a British company that doesn't own any ferries, has never operated one and has only existed for two years.

The government skipped European public procurement rules saying that this is an unforseen emergency.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46714984

And what do you make of that?

 

[Arakhor]

It's a fine addition to the "evil, incompetent or both" roulette of Tory policies since the Coalition.

 

[Hrothbern]

Today the US-ambassador in the UK offered May the special Trump treat if she does not close the deal with the EU:

President Trump’s preference is “to do a quick, very massive bilateral trade deal," Johnson said, "that could be the precursor of future trade deals with other countries around the world for Great Britain, that will really take you way, way into an exciting future."
https://www.politico.eu/article/woo...er-theresa-may-brexit-deal-us-envoy-warns-uk/

.... and Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson saw yesterday a new global Britain role for its armed forces:

'This is our biggest moment as a nation since the end of the Second World War, when we can recast ourselves in a different way, we can actually play the role on the world stage that the world expects us to play.
'For so long - literally for decades - so much of our national view point has actually been coloured by a discussion about the European Union.
'This is our moment to be that true global player once more - and I think the armed forces play a really important role as part of that.'
Mr Williamson said he was looking at opportunities to establish a UK presence 'not just in the Far East but also in the Caribbean as well'.
He declined to identify possible locations, but the Telegraph quoted a source close to the Defence Secretary as saying that new bases, housing service and maintenance staff, supply ships and equipment, could be sited in Singapore or Brunei in the South China Sea, or Montserrat or Guyana in the Caribbean 'within the next couple of years'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ld-new-military-bases-Caribbean-Far-East.html

....just after Jeremy Hunt was launching the Singapore scenario for the UK (with himself in a leading role if not as PM):

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt today burnishes his ‘born again Brexiteer’ credentials by calling for the UK to emulate the ultra-low tax example of Singapore in our post-EU future.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...r-Jeremy-Hunts-manifesto-low-tax-Britain.html

And you do in general not need a Parliament approval in the UK for international treaties...

If that interim quick fix super-duper yuge Trump deal has been prepared by the true Brexiteer gang....

Happy New Year

 

[Kyriakos]

Not sure why he thinks the world wants britain to play any role military-wise. Or at all, tbh

 

[uppi]

Today the US-ambassador in the UK offered May the special Trump treat if she does not close the deal with the EU:

Finally, the UK will be free to completely subjugate themselves as a vassal of the US.

Not sure why he thinks the world wants britain to play any role military-wise. Or at all, tbh

Projection. He certainly seems to dream of the good old days when the British Empire ruled the waves, so he assumes the rest of the world dreams of that as well.

Imperialists are always ready to take up The White Man's Burden.

 

[Silurian]

And what do you make of that?

Chris Grayling minister for incompetence.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Today the US-ambassador in the UK offered May the special Trump treat if she does not close the deal with the EU:

And you do in general not need a Parliament approval in the UK for international treaties...

That depends upon the nature of the treaties.

Fortunately for us, President Donald Trump needs the USA houses to ratify treaties.

.... and Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson saw yesterday a new global Britain role for its armed forces:

I am adding him to my list of idiots; sub-category Remainer pretending to be a Leaver. Worst sub-category of them all.

Not sure why he thinks the world wants britain to play any role military-wise.

Projection. He certainly seems to dream of the good old days when the British Empire ruled the waves, so he assumes the rest of the world dreams of that as well. Imperialists are always ready to take up The White Man's Burden.

I rather think he dreams of being Prime Minister.

I suspect that a baffled Singapore government merely failed to promptly rebuke Jeremy Hunt's proposal
outright, and he has simply taken oriental diplomacy and politeness as some form of agreement.

The whole point of having worldwide naval bases was to defend a worldwide empire.
As the UK does not have an empire now, there is no point to establishing such bases.

We merely require the Royal Navy to defend the English Channel (La Manche)
from illegal immigrants arriving on pirated French boats, and parts of the Atlantic.

But what is the Ministry of Defence and Home Office doing?

They send ships to the Black Sea (to annoy the Russians), the South China Sea (to annoy the Chinese)
and the Mediterranean to annoy goodness knows who (everybody else on the grounds of non discrimination).

Chris Grayling minister for incompetence.

Well that goes without saying after the railway timetable cock-up.

Still the ferries may come in useful for repatriating needy citizens when the UK/EU air travel stops.

 

[Arakhor]

The Royal Navy? What on earth for? This December, we've had so many attempted crossings that the ever-calm Home Secretary has claimed that just 230 people throughout December constitutes a crisis. If less than 3 people a day counts as a news crisis, I'm fairly sure that the Coast Guard alone can handle this.

 

[brennan]

The 'authorities' couldn't handle a toy helicopter last week. The idea of dealing with a couple of hundred rogue human beings is entirely beyond their management skills. Amongst the Tories the Peter principle doesn't stop merely at the level of incompetence, it catapults the incompetent right to the top.

 

[EnglishEdward]

The Royal Navy? What on earth for? This December, we've had so many attempted crossings that the ever-calm Home Secretary has claimed that just 230 people throughout December constitutes a crisis. If less than 3 people a day counts as a news crisis, I'm fairly sure that the Coast Guard alone can handle this.

There are 31 days in December in the universe I inhabit. And if we divide your 230 by 31, we get slightly more than 7 people per day.

 

[Arakhor]

I'm must be much more tired than I thought, as the answer is clearly closer to 8 than 3 and yet I didn't catch that when making the post.

However, given that that number also includes those who were stopped in France, I can only assume that either our entire border defence teams are grossly incompetent or Sajid Javid is specifically manufacturing a fake crisis for political benefit.

 

[Silurian]

That post was in reply to Hrothbern's concern about igniting tensions in NI. Of course it was about movement of irish and british citizens, those were the only relevant ones for the issue. I already make my posts very lengthy, should I spell out everything and have a lawyer go over it before publishing? Fortunately I'm not a career bureaucrat...

The EU has been the one side raising concerns about possible tensions and a violation of the GFA. If they want to keep the CTA agreement in place, ll they had to do was to say "the backstop we wish is the CTA". The UK would have agreed without any dispute. In fact the US has proposed just that. The EU ignored the UK's proposal, which in practice means rejecting it, made up a problem and piled on outrageous demands.

@Hrothbern post (448) was about trade across the border.

Hrothbern made no mention of the movement of people across the border, the common travel area or the UK Governments current views on these subjects.

Since Hrothbern did not mention the movement of people across the inner Irish border or the common travel area we have no reason to suppose that because you were replying to his post about trade you were talking about the common travel area. You often, whilst replying to a post, do not confine your post to the subject of the post you are replying too; why should we assume that you that are confining yourself without evidence. As @really noted (post 470) the common travel area has not been an issue. One of the four freedoms of the EU is the Freedom of Movement of People, you stated "free ....movement for citzens", rather than common travel area. Most people are aware of the free movement of people/citzens in the EU, people from outside UK and Ireland are less likely to know about the UK/Ireland/Isle of Man/Channel Islands common travel area; it is reasonable to assume that people using the EU form of words are talking about the EU freedom.

Only if the EU/Ireland do not implement a hard border and then the UK does one, will the EU be able to blame the UK for igniting tensions. Accusing the UK of causing a "hard border" in Ireland when when what the UK was demanding in the negotiations was free trade for goods and movement for citizens is pure hypocrisy. It was the EU that rejected that in the negotiations, and put many other demand on the table in order to allow this free transit. From the start, all along, it was the EU threatening a hard border in case it didn't get a deal to its liking.

No one has posted any evidence that the UK demanded that the Common Travel Area be maintained or that the EU wanted or wants to end the Common Travel Area.

Here is article 5 of the protocols of the withdrawal agreement 25/11/18.
This is the only reference that I can see to the Common Travel Area, If anyone can see another reference please post.

ARTICLE 5
Common Travel Area

1.
The United Kingdom and Ireland may continue to make arrangements between themselves
relating to the movement of persons between their territories (the "Common Travel Area"), while
fully respecting the rights of natural persons conferred by Union law


2.
The United Kingdom shall ensure that the Common Travel Area and the associated rights and
privileges can continue to apply without affecting the obligations of Ireland under Union law, in
particular with respect to free movement for Union citizens and their family members, irrespective
of their nationality, to, from and within Ireland.

https://assets.publishing.service.g..._and_the_European_Atomic_Energy_Community.pdf

 

[Cheetah]

It's 2019, and 87 days to go.

In 2019 the UK will start a new chapter, says Theresa May.

 

[Kyriakos]

Happy brexit year!

 

[Silurian]

Happy brexit year!

I think the only people who will be happy are the people who are employed to be pundits on the TV and sell newspapers, and of course ferry companies with no ferries.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Great Britain wasn't formed until 1707

Wasn't it more like 6,000 BC?

 

[Kyriakos]

Wasn't it more like 6,000 BC?

It definitely was there during the periplous of pytheas of massalia

 

[Arakhor]

That depends on the sinking of Doggerland actually occurred.