Britain is leaving the EU

[Yeekim]

The withdrawal of liquidity ordered by the ECB was illegal per the EU's own body of legislation.

So when did this "withdrawal of liquidity" happen? Because I'm pretty sure there wouldn't even be any "Greek" banks right now, had ECB actually cut them off from ELA...

 

[Gigaz]

Spain raising the stakes. The country has also decided to not block an EU entry of an independent Scotland. Also Spain does not care all that much about international security cooperation, and it has many British people. Perhaps Theresa May will cede Gibraltar to Spain and get a good Brexit agreement in return. That might hurt her in an election, but may well save a large chunk of the British economy.

 

[Silurian]

Spain will not get Gibraltar but they will make the negotiations harder.

 

[Lillefix]

I wonder if this would have happened if the British government had been a bit more civil.

 

[Cheetah]

I'm really flabbergasted as to how the British government has ended up at this stage... The EU has formal rules for allowing member states to peacefully leave. There will just have to be quite a lot of negotiations, since the relationships are complicated.

And then British government officials start talking about how they can win a war against Spain?!

 

[Colon]

Spain will not get Gibraltar but they will make the negotiations harder.

Nor is Spain as such demanding Gibraltar, though you wouldn't tell judging from the British reaction.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Nor is Spain as such demanding Gibraltar, though you wouldn't tell judging from the British reaction.

You know, people always see the world through his own ****-stained glasses, a thief believes everybody steals... cant think of more proverbs now.

 

[Kozmos]

I'm really flabbergasted as to how the British government has ended up at this stage... The EU has formal rules for allowing member states to peacefully leave. There will just have to be quite a lot of negotiations, since the relationships are complicated.

And then British government officials start talking about how they can win a war against Spain?!

I think May is simply playing for political points and the Admiralty is using that to get some attention to their woeful budget for the last decade or so.

 

[uppi]

I was reading some random person saying it shouldn't be on the table.

It has to be on the table. Currently Gibraltar and its inhabitants have a special status in the EU. So the exit agreement needs to have language that clarifies their future status. Obviously, Spain does not want that section to recognize Gibraltar as part of the UK. And with the UK out, the other 26 states do not feel obligated to support the UK's position any more.

 

[Silurian]

Nor is Spain as such demanding Gibraltar, though you wouldn't tell judging from the British reaction.

The worst thing that will happen is that the border will close.

Michael Howard, the former Tory leader, has just been decribed, on BBC R4, as being like an "ageing rockstar wanting to go on the road one last time" for his comments.

 

[Agent327]

You should know it: you are one of the main posters of "alt facts" (I prefer the proper word: lies) in this website.

Very droll. You may want to look up ' alternative fact'. Because what you just did here I refer to as a Trumpism: a bold claim with no foundation whatsoever. ' Obama wire tapped me!'

Because you probably are unable to understand long texts

You mean like books?:

For reference: the original "Growth and Stability Pact", which brought signatories neither growth nor stability, imposed a 60% ceiling for public debt (what FriendlyFire referred to) and a 3% budget deficit limit, which were repeatedly broken by most states and finally declared "stupid" by a former european tin-pot dictator. The current set of treaties are so complex (and still stupid) that I'm sure you are unable to understand them even were I to spend hours explaining. The same limits were maintained but with an ever-growing list of caveat, selectively applied or not, depending on whether it is France or Germany violating them, or whether it is Greece or Malta. As another of the would-be tin-pot european dictators dictators stated recently: "la France, c'est la France"... and Germany can beet a trade surplus above 6%, violating another agreement, the EC doesn't care.

And your point is? Because that seems to have gotten a bit lost.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think May is simply playing for political points and the Admiralty is using that to get some attention to their woeful budget for the last decade or so.

Ships are sort of irrelevant in this context by now, unless anyone thinks that England will make an amphibious assault on Spain ^^

 

[Broken_Erika]

Ships are sort of irrelevant in this context by now, unless anyone thinks that England will make an amphibious assault on Spain ^^

They will begin with a suprise naval assault against Madrid.

 

[Arakhor]

The Telegraph seems to be the paper for people who are in love with the British Empire. Michael Howard is apparently also trying to be less of an irrelevance in politics these days, not that he was ever particularly relevant, even when leader of the Tories.

 

[innonimatu]

So when did this "withdrawal of liquidity" happen? Because I'm pretty sure there wouldn't even be any "Greek" banks right now, had ECB actually cut them off from ELA...

When? June 28, 2015:

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2015/html/pr150628.en.html

Given the current circumstances, the Governing Council decided to maintain the ceiling to the provision of emergency liquidity assistance (ELA) to Greek banks at the level decided on Friday (26 June 2015).

That was the key phrase. "Maintaining the ceiling" meant denying liquidity exactly when it was necessary for the central bank to increase it. Greece was facing a bank run an the ECB denied authorization for its greek branch to increase liquidity beyond the exiting level, thus guaranteeing that the banks would be unable to operate normally. The role of central banks as last resort providers of liquidity is to be applied exactly in these situations (bank runs!). This was the reason central banks were created in the first place.

The ECB violated its own mandate, namely "to promote the smooth operation of payment systems". Instead it encouraged a bank run knowing hat it would cause the payments system in Greece to fail. Unfortunately the greek government did not had the luxury of time to take the issue to the ECJ.

 

[Commodore]

And then British government officials start talking about how they can win a war against Spain?!

The UK leaving the EU would be the absolute dumbest reason for for World War III to start.

 

[FriendlyFire]

The UK leaving the EU would be the absolute dumbest reason for for World War III to start.

Lebenstraum causing another war ?
Why Iam shocked SHOCKED I tell you !

What will probably happen is Gilbetair will have a referendum, maybe even independence, some euro monies will change hands
That or Brexit will be stalled in negotiation mode for 10 years and the question will be moot.

 

[Colon]

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/201402_elaprocedures.en.pdf?10cc0e926699a1984161dc21722ca841

From the ECB's ELA procedures:

ELA means the provision by a Eurosystem national central bank (NCB) of:
(a) central bank money and/or
(b) any other assistance that may lead to an increase in central bank money
to a solvent financial institution, or group of solvent financial institutions, that is facing temporary
liquidity problems,without such operation being part of the single monetary policy.

Note "solvent" and "temporary". The Greek banks weren't solvent and the liquidity had already been provided for months. It is still being provided.

The above is standard procedure. Lender of last resort is about helping banks tide over a shock, not about bailing out banks that are fundamentally bankrupt. That's the government's job.

Moreover:

However, Article 14.4 of the Statute of the European System of Central Banks and of the European
Central Bank (Statute of the ESCB) assigns the Governing Council of the ECB responsibility for
restricting ELA operations if it considers that these operations interfere with the objectives and tasks of
the Eurosystem. Such decisions are taken by the Governing Council with a majority of two-thirds of the
votes cast.

Not only was the ECB perfectly within its rights to maintain the ceiling, it had already gone well beyond its duty to help Greek banks and is still doing so. Not that it gets much gratitude for that.

 

[Yeekim]

The Greek banks weren't solvent and the liquidity had already been provided for months.

Well, they weren't bankrupt either (yet). But they definitely would've gone bankrupt, if they had had to write off all the Greek government bonds they were holding.
Which absolutely would have happened, if Greece hadn't accepted the deal that creditors offered...

Not only was the ECB perfectly within its rights to maintain the ceiling, it had already gone well beyond its duty to help Greek banks and is still doing so. Not that it gets much gratitude for that.

Ditto. Let's also remember the ELA ceiling was at the time maintained at ~90 billion euros. I wouldn't exactly call it a "withdrawal of liquidity"...

 

[HAND]

The Gibraltar issue is just a silly storm in a tea cup, but if Spain persists then the UK could always respond by backing independence for Catalonia and backing Morocco's claim to Ceuta and Melilla.

The UK leaving the EU would be the absolute dumbest reason for for World War III to start.

It's a pity the Remain camp used that reason for staying in the EU during the referendum campaign isn't it?