queenpea
Emperor
Really hoping Augustus stops unlocking all civilizations soon. With the additions of new civs with DLC, I really am hoping for revisions of this system.
Bulgaria Civ Overview (Exploration Age)
- Thread starter thecrazyscot
- Start date
stealth_nsk
Deity
I don't think Firaxis will be removing unlocks, I just think with more civs it will be more evenly distributed.
BTW, how many civilizations does Augustus unlock? I believe he's more focused on antiquity civs (3).
queenpea
Emperor
Sorry when I say Augustus I mean Augustus/Rome. Still the same thing in my head.
I fully expect with the delivery of expansion packs we also receive reworks of some unlocks.
stealth_nsk
Deity
I expect rework in terms of adding more connections to balance those who don't have enough, not removing any. But based on confirmed and leaked civ roster I believe Firaxis just want to achieve this by adding more civs to areas not connected enough.
P.S. I can't say I like this approach, I'd like to see Europe, Middle East and Central Asia represented a bit more, because I'm more familiar with their history. But I hope they'll eventually have all the most famous civilizations.
Evolena
King
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2016
- Messages
- 862
Yeah while Augustus doesn't unlock anything (he only has "recommended choices", 8 of them now), Rome does unlock 6 civs. However, they only have 3 in common (Spain, French Empire and Prussia) - we could say that Rome is more "Europe" while Augustus is more "Mediterranean".
Vincent_lacruz
Warlord
The civ sounds rather interresting. A few points:
- During Exploration age, you are not really keen on conquering cities in the homeland, because it is far more efficient to keep the settlements limit for the Distant lands (if you are lucky to find treasure fleet resources...). But pillaging should be sweet, you slow down ennemies while gaining stuff.
- Their -3 CS against fortified (-6 with the tradition) is compensated by the +5 CS from dogma (have 5 relic exposed), so you still can conquer soon enough. Even then, -3CS is not that penalizing, and you still can conquer towns relatively easily.
- Getting food, and later production from pillaging is great, especially when the Unique commander can let you pillage for no cost (at last a reason to get the command radius increase commendation!...). Their Unique cavalry ignores rough terrain, and control zone (if I understand it correctly), so you can "go shopping" with relative ease.
- Their UI is so-so, rough terrain is not so widespread generally (especially since the bias of the civ do not impact is you play from antiquity...)... But I guess it is still sweet to have a way to increase happines in towns, and get some culture...
- For "ancestors", either a civ that give free promotion for the commanders (Persia, Rome) to get that +1 command radius faster, or a civ that likes horses (so far Cartage and Maurya are the only one, I think...)
- As for leaders, asside from the obvious horse lover (yep, Charlemagne...), Napoléon could be a nice fit (Emperor, let's say keeping pillaging neighbours will get you a lot of gold, and the increase movement for the revolutionnary gets well with pillaging then fleeing).
- During Exploration age, you are not really keen on conquering cities in the homeland, because it is far more efficient to keep the settlements limit for the Distant lands (if you are lucky to find treasure fleet resources...). But pillaging should be sweet, you slow down ennemies while gaining stuff.
- Their -3 CS against fortified (-6 with the tradition) is compensated by the +5 CS from dogma (have 5 relic exposed), so you still can conquer soon enough. Even then, -3CS is not that penalizing, and you still can conquer towns relatively easily.
- Getting food, and later production from pillaging is great, especially when the Unique commander can let you pillage for no cost (at last a reason to get the command radius increase commendation!...). Their Unique cavalry ignores rough terrain, and control zone (if I understand it correctly), so you can "go shopping" with relative ease.
- Their UI is so-so, rough terrain is not so widespread generally (especially since the bias of the civ do not impact is you play from antiquity...)... But I guess it is still sweet to have a way to increase happines in towns, and get some culture...
- For "ancestors", either a civ that give free promotion for the commanders (Persia, Rome) to get that +1 command radius faster, or a civ that likes horses (so far Cartage and Maurya are the only one, I think...)
- As for leaders, asside from the obvious horse lover (yep, Charlemagne...), Napoléon could be a nice fit (Emperor, let's say keeping pillaging neighbours will get you a lot of gold, and the increase movement for the revolutionnary gets well with pillaging then fleeing).
TheGhostEnthusiast
King
I still do think that Rome unlocking America is a bit unnecessary... Rome to a Modern German Civilization makes sense, especially in leu of an Exploration one, and the connection to Britain and France from Rome makes sense (though I could see them dropped in the future), but there's no territorial overlap between the United States and Rome, and if you want to give it a European Antiquity predecessor based off of cultural influence, I think most Americans would be more likely to associate the adopted Democratic philosophy and the architecture used for old government buildings with Greek inspiration than Roman. Especially as Greece has more connections that are obvious contenders to be dropped in the future (Spain and Normans), giving it America instead would make for an efficient unlock balancing move.
stealth_nsk
Deity
I've just thought that long list of unlocks could be actually a civilization feature. You play Maya for their unique buildings, Greece for their legacies, Axum for naval starting bias and Rome for large selection of unlocked civs, that sort of thing.
Dropping Rome unlocking America and giving it to Greece would make both have 5 once Bulgaria comes out.
Menocchio
Prince
The Founding Fathers looked down somewhat on Greece, and were fairly thoroughly Romanophiles. Remember that the United States was not founded on democratic ("Athenian") philosophy, but on republican Roman philosophy—plus the architecture was Roman too; the classical dome comes from Rome. And the classic Jeffersonian ideal of the landowning yeoman farmer—whom he hoped would be, along with workshop artisans, the chief constituent citizens of the republic—is remarkably identical to the very same ideal Romans had about themselves. There may not be a geographic connection, but without Rome there is no United States as we know it.
As we get more non-European civs, no doubt we'll see Persia and Han become basically the Romes of their particular parts of the world, with how widely influential Persianate culture and Confucianism were. Speaking of, it's kind of interesting that Bulgaria is itself unlocked by Persia!
Ryansinbela
Emperor
Is there any history behind Persia unlocking Bulgaria
I think the eastern part of Bulgaria was under the Achaemenid Empire. Plus, Bulgaria's proximity to the Middle East in general being in Southeastern Europe.
marius_kaparius
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2016
- Messages
- 470
The game guide for Bulgaria has been published: https://civilization.2k.com/civ-vii/game-guide/civilizations/bulgaria/
can‘t wait to try them. And go into Buganda?
TheGhostEnthusiast
King
Is there any reason that this thread is out here while Bolivar and Nepal are in Reference Information?
We set foot on the Balkans several hundred years after the Achaemenid Empire ceased to exist, but there are some theories that the Proto-Bulgarians were of Iranian (Scytho-Sarmatian) origin. Not sure what other connection they saw
Yeah, I only meant they had control of the geographical territory of eastern Bulgaria, not that they controlled the eastern Bulgarian people.We set foot on the Balkans several hundred years after the Achaemenid Empire ceased to exist, but there are some theories that the Proto-Bulgarians were of Iranian (Scytho-Sarmatian) origin. Not sure what other connection they saw
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
It's largely mechanical. One Exp/Mil Civ unlocks another.
It would make more sense for the Scythians to unlock Bulgaria, but until they're added, Persia will have to do.
Certainly prefer that over yet another "play Rome to unlock this". All roads should lead to Rome, not from it.
