Canada Pulls Out of the Kyoto Protocol

[emzie]

If we weren't going to meet the goals, pulling out seems to make sense.

Obviously that $14 billion would be better spent on fighter jets to use in the upcoming war against Norway

Denmark.

 

[Murky]

Canada is one of the countries that might profit from warming. So I can see why they might want to save the money.

Maybe in the short-term from things like the Tar Sands. With AGW, there will be consequences the world over. For instance, in the far north there could be massive coastal erosion from melting permafrost. Then they would also see stuff like the Blizzard/Hurricane that slammed Alaska recently. Then if there is the desalination of the Atlantic which slows the gulf-stream, they could see a massive and sudden temperature decline in winter. This would mean that they would have warmer summers, more spring/fall storms and harsher winters. Fun fun..

 

[warpus]

This, sort of. The reasons for bailing out were entirely rational and correct, but I'm still ashamed that we had to do it. It's my opinion that if you're going to sign a treaty, you should damn well follow through on it, because it's the right thing to do.

It would have cost the average Canadian family something like $2,000.

Screw that. If everyone on the world was a part of this and countries like China didn't get any breaks, I would be outraged.. Now I am just.. wondering whether Harper might have a couple brain cells left.

Canada is one of the countries that might profit from warming. So I can see why they might want to save the money.

That's not the reason at all. Nobody here wants things to get warmer..

Besides, climate change doesn't make things warmer.. it just screws up with your weather, period. You'll get super hot summers and super cold winters.. or whatever.. who knows. It's not as if the Canadian tundra was going to melt and reveal fields of bacon. Climate change is something nobody wants.

 

[Defiant47]

So, is the prevailing state of the economy more important than pesky environmental reforms and concerns? Is maintaining a sustainable environment for beyond the next generation a "luxury" that can be dropped at the sight of trouble?

Or is the Kyoto protocol simply short-sighted lip service that doesn't truly achieve anything save for scamming glorious nations such as yours truly's of justly earned funds?

The latter it is, then.

 

[History_Buff]

It would have cost the average Canadian family something like $2,000.

Screw that. If everyone on the world was a part of this and countries like China didn't get any breaks, I would be outraged.. Now I am just.. wondering whether Harper might have a couple brain cells left.

I admit we wouldn't be doing ourselves any favors by following through. Nor do I think the cost is all that high (are we talking $2000 in lost growth, or $2000 in fines?). But nonetheless, our collective names are on the treaty, and we have a responsibility to try. It's just good faith.

If we can't even do that, we deserve what we get. It'll teach us to make an effort to follow through in the future.

That's not the reason at all. Nobody here wants things to get warmer..

You crazy son? Perhaps you don't know what a western winter is like, but I for one could use an extra 2 degrees

 

[Renner]

Stay in, and pay 14 billion in penalties? Or pull out and pay nothing?

Was there ever a question about what was going to happen?

 

[Arwon]

Meanwhile China continues to be committed to an economy wide emissions trading scheme by 2015 (making it a net purchaser of carbon credits) and the major players have all agreed to write a legally binding agreement on emissions reductions. Good luck to Canada trying to bargain in the future for a more generous target or anything like that.

 

[Maniacal]

The Government has shown time and again that it puts the economic development of the Oilsands above environmental health and our international reputation. This is no surprise - indeed, they've been signalling that it was the case for weeks at least.

It was obvious the cons had no interest in it years ago.

We're not the ones who will be suffering the most drastic consequences of climate shifts, but one has to wonder what the future political ramifications of our inaction may be.

Er, yes, we will. We do claim a large chunk of the Arctic after all, and it is melting. As someone who lives along a coastline, rising ocean levels is also of great concern. Same with the poisoning of rivers and depletion of fish stocks.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Ehh, as others have said, it's been in the talks for weeks and was bound to happen.

Are there any other countries out there thinking of pulling out as well?

 

[Eat_Up_Martha]

Ehh, as others have said, it's been in the talks for weeks and was bound to happen.

Are there any other countries out there thinking of pulling out as well?

I read an article in last weeks Economist about it; they said Russia and Japan will probably end up pulling out too.

 

[Glassmage]

Who cares about sustainability?? The Earth will die when the sun get big anyway...

 

[amadeus]

Good for Canada and good for the world.

 

[Evie]

*Shrugs* Might as well. The provinces that were going to make honest efforts to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions, are doing so anyway, and the provinces that wouldn't, still won't, and we never even tried to enforce it anyway.

Here's to hoping Quebec at least can meet its 2012 objective (6% below 1990 emissions level by 2012), even if it won't mean much compared to even the RoC, let alone China and the USA does.

(Granted, all those hydro plants are kind of helping)

 

[wilycoyote]

Without being able to count on the US and China, this was never anything other than wishful thinking and insignificant symbolism.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Wow Canada, wow.

We're going to starting pumping our emissions north now.

Depending on which way the wind is blowing, you already do.

Canada is one of the countries that might profit from warming. So I can see why they might want to save the money.

Yes, Harper wants to save $$$$$$$ on Kyoto so he can spend $$$$$$$ on fighter jets, when nobody we know of has declared war on us. Or so he can use it to further develop the tar sands - new one is being opened soon, Alberta, prepare to see even more of our once-beautiful province being turned into a toxic cesspool.

Obviously that $14 billion would be better spent on fighter jets to use in the upcoming war against Norway

Denmark.

Yes, we absolutely cannot have Denmark claiming that little bit of an island between Canada and Greenland. I wonder - is it a rocky island, or one that's mostly frozen?

Maybe in the short-term from things like the Tar Sands. With AGW, there will be consequences the world over. For instance, in the far north there could be massive coastal erosion from melting permafrost. Then they would also see stuff like the Blizzard/Hurricane that slammed Alaska recently. Then if there is the desalination of the Atlantic which slows the gulf-stream, they could see a massive and sudden temperature decline in winter. This would mean that they would have warmer summers, more spring/fall storms and harsher winters. Fun fun..

There already is severe coastal erosion from melting permafrost, at least in some places. Several years ago, CBC showed how some northern hamlets were literally melting into the ocean.

We really don't need warmer summers. Really. Proper distribution of rainfall, yes, we need that. But warmer? I don't handle summer very well, because much above 20C is beyond my comfort zone. Having to endure temperatures in the 20s more than halfway through September... I'm not surprised I was sick this fall. As for harsher winters... well, I remember nearly freezing on a few occasions, and someday, if I ever get a working scanner, I might post some photos from the '60s, to show Plotinus what "more than 2 feet of snow" - which he says he's never seen in his life - looks like. Back in the '60s and '70s, winter was worthy of being called winter. What we get now? Piffling, in comparison, both temperature-wise and precipitation-wise, at least in Central Alberta.

You crazy son? Perhaps you don't know what a western winter is like, but I for one could use an extra 2 degrees

Huh? This winter hasn't been bad at all, so far. Just crappy snow removal efforts, but that happens every year.

Who cares about sustainability?? The Earth will die when the sun get big anyway...

That's not going to happen for a few more billion years. In the meantime, we have to live somewhere - since nobody seems in much of a hurry to develop the technology to take us to other planets.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Who cares about human life? We will all die much sooner then the Earth, anyway...

 

[Renner]

We really don't need warmer summers. Really. Proper distribution of rainfall, yes, we need that. But warmer? I don't handle summer very well, because much above 20C is beyond my comfort zone. Having to endure temperatures in the 20s more than halfway through September... I'm not surprised I was sick this fall.

At least its a dry heat

 

[El_Machinae]

I am pretty irritated by this. Especially the refusal to pay the penalties. Externalities in economics are well understood, and Harper is supposed to understand economics. It doesn't morally matter if other groups are doing the right thing or the wrong thing when it comes to mitigating externalities. And North America cannot poo-pooh the developing countries, either.

You use fossil fuels to build wealth and progress. And you mitigate the externalities in the meanwhile. If your burning fossil fuels prevents you from being able to build progress (sufficient to reduce CO2 emissions) and prevents you from mitigating externalities, you're doing something wrong.

No one disagrees that you need minimum investment and infrastructure before wealth progress becomes sufficient to mitigate externalities. We've somehow become convinced that Indians & Chinese are getting an 'unfair deal', even though we've spent decades longer pumping CO2 into the atmosphere.

"Oh, for the last 20 years, I've been emitting as much as 10 Indians. But they're getting a break so I'm not going to stop!"

 

[Valka D'Ur]

At least its a dry heat

Not always.

 

[Murky]

There already is severe coastal erosion from melting permafrost, at least in some places. Several years ago, CBC showed how some northern hamlets were literally melting into the ocean.

I know. Imagine it being worse where it starts putting whole cities in danger.

We really don't need warmer summers. Really. Proper distribution of rainfall, yes, we need that. But warmer? I don't handle summer very well, because much above 20C is beyond my comfort zone. Having to endure temperatures in the 20s more than halfway through September... I'm not surprised I was sick this fall. As for harsher winters... well, I remember nearly freezing on a few occasions, and someday, if I ever get a working scanner, I might post some photos from the '60s, to show Plotinus what "more than 2 feet of snow" - which he says he's never seen in his life - looks like. Back in the '60s and '70s, winter was worthy of being called winter. What we get now? Piffling, in comparison, both temperature-wise and precipitation-wise, at least in Central Alberta.

True, but with today's political climate it will be difficult to keep from happening.

For a better explanation there's always a good Youtube video


Link to video.