Canadians: Is it time to get out of Afghanistan?

[silver 2039]

God guys, Musharraf isn't the problem. He is doing what he can within the political context of Pakistan.

He took a lot of political damage for sending the army into Waziristan to crack down on the Taliban. People were pissed at him for not focusing on the "real enemy" in Kashmir - India. If Pakistan kept the pressure on the warlords, Musharraf would probably lose power, and the situation in Pakistan would become even worse.

No Mushaff is also the problem he is hardly doing enough to regin in the insurgents in his territory. And he lets the ISI run wild and carry out terrorist attacks at will. And whats even more patethic is he sends the army into Warzistan, the army takes sum casulties, and he withdraws the army, and signs and agreeement with the Taliban and Al-Quadea in Warzistan allowing them to stay in Warzistan as long as they don't use Pakistani territory to launch attacks. In effect all he did was give Taliban and Al-Quadea a safe haven to stay.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

@silver 2039

Congratulations, you have just pointed out why being president of Pakistan is about the toughest job in the world. Musharraf doesn't hold all the strings in Pakistan. If he did, he would probably do more. The problem is the ISI and Waziristan.

What would you propose he do? Keep fighting in Waziristan and get himself assassinated/ousted and replaced by an Islamist government?

 

[sysyphus]

Maybe Europe would like to contribute more... MONEY, then? -Since it's so important... the cause.

More important, besides the UK and Netherlands the other European countries should send troops into the battle zones in the south ratehr than just stationing them in the much more secured north.

 

[sysyphus]

Congratulations, you have just pointed out why being president of Pakistan is about the toughest job in the world. Musharraf doesn't hold all the strings in Pakistan. If he did, he would probably do more. The problem is the ISI and Waziristan.

What would you propose he do? Keep fighting in Waziristan and get himself assassinated/ousted and replaced by an Islamist government?

Just because he's in a tight spot doesn't mean he's not an arsehole.

If nothing else, I don't appreciate him coming here and chastising Canadians about how we feel about this war, especially with our weak kneed excuse for a Prime Minister standing behind him and cheering him on.

 

[Kozmos]

Maybe Europe would like to contribute more... MONEY, then? -Since it's so important... the cause.

No we will keep hoarding our euros and let you spend your dollars so we'll be more powerful

 

[JollyRoger]

Let me know how la-la land is if you ever come back...

~Chris

You know, leading up to the invasion of Iraq, I would have be told the same thing if I had suggested that the U.S. would still be getting soldiers killed in Iraq (much less Afghanistan) in 2007 (not by you of course).

La-la land was great by the way. It's populated with cheap booze and cheaper women.

 

[RedWolf]

We should stay in Afghanistan. We just can't up and leave and let the country fall back into the hands of the Taliban.

Why not? If the current government/situation is little better then who cares?

 

[Slaughter]

I think that westerners have to stop being weak and begin hanging people upside down on lots of crosses. And then beating the heck outta them. Believe me, this will solve A LOT of problems.

 

[RedWolf]

I think that westerners have to stop being weak and begin hanging people upside down on lots of crosses. And then beating the heck outta them. Believe me, this will solve A LOT of problems.

Umm... How so?

 

[JollyRoger]

I think that westerners have to stop being weak and begin hanging people upside down on lots of crosses. And then beating the heck outta them. Believe me, this will solve A LOT of problems.

Would it solve the soccer riots problem?

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Just because he's in a tight spot doesn't mean he's not an arsehole..

Who said he had to be Barney the Dinosaur? This isn't about "I wish Musharraf was a more polite and considerate person."

If nothing else, I don't appreciate him coming here and chastising Canadians about how we feel about this war, especially with our weak kneed excuse for a Prime Minister standing behind him and cheering him on.

You mean after Canadians complained over and over about he doesn't do anything about it, when he clearly can't do anything about it. And he has a point. Pakistan took 500 casualties (dead casualties) trying to impose itself on Waziristan. Do you think Canada would still be in Afghanistan if it took that many casualties?

The best thing he can do is keep enough order in the country for most people to live better lives, and keep control over the bulk of the military and the nuclear weapons.

 

[RedWolf]

I bet you did not expect dead soldiers as late as 2007 when you got into it?

I did.

Task Force Afghanistan's deputy commander Col. Mike Cessford is now saying that this war will last "generations". That might be the case (which is why I oppossed it) but it surely won't for Canada. Despite the pro-war flag flag waving, few of us want to see our grand children fighting this war.

 

[Slaughter]

Umm... How so?

Because they're too scared to revolt. Simple.


DOUBLE POST. OOOPS;

 

[sysyphus]

I think that westerners have to stop being weak and begin hanging people upside down on lots of crosses. And then beating the heck outta them. Believe me, this will solve A LOT of problems.

It'll create more than it solves. If it didn't, the powers that be would have done it long ago despite any public opinion to the contrary.

You mean after Canadians complained over and over about he doesn't do anything about it, when he clearly can't do anything about it. And he has a point. Pakistan took 500 casualties (dead casualties) trying to impose itself on Waziristan. Do you think Canada would still be in Afghanistan if it took that many casualties?

Canadians have every right to complain about him and the tribalist crap he's supposed to be leading. We have a right to complain that we have to send our young men and women to die (and on a per capita basis, we've lost more) for what he and his ilk can't control.

He doesn't like it? Tough crap. Canadians should not have to apologise for putting value on life, and Stephen "Stand up for Canada" Harper should make that known instead of smiling away with his "standing shoulder to shoulder" crap.

A PM with bollocks would have told not to come here a criticise our open and safe society when he's still got his mess back home. Yes it's a tough bind, and we should be more than ready to help him on that front, but nobody in Pakistan has a right to criticise Canada for anything.

he best thing he can do is keep enough order in the country for most people to live better lives, and keep control over the bulk of the military and the nuclear weapons.

Then he should be at home doing just that rather than being here sitting on his high horse.

 

[Slaughter]

Umm... How so?

Because they're too scared to revolt. Simple. Of course, I'm disregarding ethics here...

 

[RedWolf]

Because they're too scared to revolt. Simple. Of course, I'm disregarding ethics here...

So if your best case scenario is a brutal dictatorship in Afghanistan then why bother being there at all? They already had one so why waste our money and lives? I'd rather fund healthcare and education for Canadians.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Canadians have every right to complain about him and the tribalist crap he's supposed to be leading. We have a right to complain that we have to send our young men and women to die (and on a per capita basis, we've lost more) for what he and his ilk can't control.

He doesn't like it? Tough crap. Canadians should not have to apologise for putting value on life, and Stephen "Stand up for Canada" Harper should make that known instead of smiling away with his "standing shoulder to shoulder" crap.

A PM with bollocks would have told not to come here a criticise our open and safe society when he's still got his mess back home. Yes it's a tough bind, and we should be more than ready to help him on that front, but nobody in Pakistan has a right to criticise Canada for anything.

Ya, it is easy to talk tough when the biggest ethnic/national/regional divide your country has to deal with is a bunch of placid French Canadians who are educated, peaceful, and reacted with horror when a group used violence in their name.

Perhaps the reason he is scolding Canadians is because people here don't seem to understand the consequences of putting the secular forces in Pakistan in a situation where they must move against the Islamists. However you feel about the man, it would make things much worse if he were forced into open war with that group. Afghanistan would become 5 times worse if Musharraf fell and Islamists took power in Pakistan. Then how many Canadians would be dying?

Then he should be at home doing just that rather than being here sitting on his high horse.

Likewise. Oh, and per capita, Pakistan has lost more.

 

[sysyphus]

Ya, it is easy to talk tough when the biggest ethnic/national/regional divide your country has to deal with is a bunch of placid French Canadians who are educated, peaceful, and reacted with horror when a group used violence in their name.

And the very attitude he is criticising is the reason why that is.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

And the very attitude he is criticising is the reason why that is.

But you are still missing the point. He may be a giant oafish douche who has insulted a country that, I would say, is objectively "better" than his. But that doesn't change the fact that Waziristan and the ISI are not his fault. Almost no secular leader would have the power, cunning, or charisma to reign those organizations in. Musharraf has done remarkably well to try and support The West against the wishes of his population. What more can you expect?

It is like turning Civ onto "Sid", or whatever the highest difficulty level is, and then being chastized for not being able to win. Being able to hold out for any length of time is impressive enough.

 

[Slaughter]

So if your best case scenario is a brutal dictatorship in Afghanistan then why bother being there at all? They already had one so why waste our money and lives? I'd rather fund healthcare and education for Canadians.

In fact, you're right. My post was just a way to remind everyone that this, THIS, is a war. We westerns just think we're so rightheous and stuff, and teh evil muslim terrorists are just a bunch of ak-47 wealding barbarians. Make no mistake here: You're not just fighting your average group of barbarians. And we westerns are just brutal as them.