The US political divisions and the role of lies in the media - one case

[Ironsided]

The Intercepts story was provided already on page two, post #25. You even liked it. What was missing was Greenwalds point of view which I tried to provide here as the other side of the argument, quite neutrally as well.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Intercepts story was provided already on page two, post #25. You even liked it.

Well, I don't memorize all posts I liked. Furthermore, there was more in the post I liked than just the article.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Lets see how this unfolds.

F.B.I. Said to Have Singled Out Potential Assailant in Capitol Officer’s Death
The death of the officer, Brian Sicknick, after the Capitol riot has been a major focus for investigators scrutinizing the attack by a pro-Trump mob.

They soon began to suspect his death was related to an irritant, like mace or bear spray, that he had inhaled during the riot. Both officers and rioters were armed with such irritants during the attack.

In a significant breakthrough in the case, investigators have now pinpointed a person seen on video of the riot who attacked several officers with bear spray, including Officer Sicknick, according to the officials. And video evidence shows that the assailant discussed attacking officers with the bear spray beforehand, one of the officials said.

On Jan. 7, when Officer Sicknick died, the Capitol Police issued a statement that said he “was injured while physically engaging with protesters,” and then “returned to his division office and collapsed.” He succumbed to his injuries at the hospital.
More recently, F.B.I. officials homed in on the potential role of an irritant as a primary factor in his death.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/26/us/politics/brian-sicknick-capitol-riot-investigation.html

 

[Berzerker]

That's the funny thing about this thread. On the one hand there are those who go out and look for multiple sources on a story to get informed. On the other hand there are those who found sources like Greenwald who only re-affirm their views. They will only seek out a narrow version of the news, not tainted by facts or reality. And they will parrot verbatim anything these journalistic hacks feed them.

I doubt anyone here thought Trump was innocent of 'collusion' before Greenwald exposed Russiagate. The narrow version of the news was Russiagate, the people who sought out multiple sources like Greenwald figured out it was a scam. The people who didn't continued parroting verbatim the lies fed to them by Democrats and their journalistic hacks. So Greenwald was right about Russiagate and you're calling him a propagandist?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

"No you"

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...he-media-one-case.667586/page-6#post-16033534

 

[innonimatu]

Lets see how this unfolds.

And revisiting this to say that there are no more excuses to keep up the lie.

Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick had two strokes and died of natural causes after he tussled with a mob of former president Donald Trump's supporters, the District of Columbia's chief medical examiner has ruled.

The medical examiner's office said on Monday (local time) that the 42-year-old officer died of natural causes the day after the January 6 violence at the US Capitol.
He suffered a stroke.

But by March, investigators revised that theory, and said additional information had led them to believe the officer may have ingested a chemical substance, such as bear spray, that contributed to his death.
The new findings mean it will be hard for federal prosecutors to bring homicide charges in connection with Mr Sicknick's death.

Hard to bring charges?

But of course the lie has produced its political purpose, and few people will notice the correction. The narrative will just be corrected from "5 people were killed" to "5 people died". The politicians who cynically and knowingly exploited a lie to make a show of claiming that he "died in his line of duty" and held a funeral for it git their political scoring. They had a martyr and it didn't even had to be one of them!

Politics based on lying are very frail politics. Running from one manufactured crisis/distraction to another.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Matt Taibbi is keeping a list of all the Russian hoaxes.
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/master-list-of-official-russia-claims

The bounties on US soldiers is the latest.

Amazing how many of these get verified before ultimately blowing up months later.

 

[Ajidica]

The bounties on US soldiers is the latest.

Amazing how many of these get verified before ultimately blowing up months later.

Was it ever "verified" at the time?
Outside of the churnalist crowd, I clearly remember all the spookwise commentators noting that this was of extremely dubious authenticity. The Trump administration said it was not acted on because it was just rumor; but given how much the Trump administration tried to hide genuine information under the "it was just rumor and of no concern" in the past, one can't blame journalists for not taking the Trump admin at its word.

 

[Berzerker]

it was Trump's fault

 

[FriendlyFire]

it was Trump's fault

Thanks Biden
To the brave "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan with Love from Russia

The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.
some of the information came from Afghan detainees, and also due to the challenging operating environment in Afghanistan.

U.S. intelligence agencies have for years documented Russian financial and military support to the Taliban
Officials familiar with the matter told NBC News that the CIA based its findings on two main avenues of intelligence: Financial records seized in a raid in Afghanistan and comments by a detainee.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Maxime Waters also something something!

 

[Kaitzilla]

And revisiting this to say that there are no more excuses to keep up the lie.



Hard to bring charges?

But of course the lie has produced its political purpose, and few people will notice the correction. The narrative will just be corrected from "5 people were killed" to "5 people died". The politicians who cynically and knowingly exploited a lie to make a show of claiming that he "died in his line of duty" and held a funeral for it git their political scoring. They had a martyr and it didn't even had to be one of them!

Politics based on lying are very frail politics. Running from one manufactured crisis/distraction to another.

The bear spray wasn't true either.
It was pepper spray.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/27/politics/sicknick-capitol-bear-spray-pepper/index.html

 

[Samson]

The bear spray wasn't true either.
It was pepper spray.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/27/politics/sicknick-capitol-bear-spray-pepper/index.html

TIL what the difference is:

Although pepper spray and bear spray contain the same active chemical, they are not the same thing. Bear spray has a much lower concentration of oleoresin capsicum, and should only be used as a bear deterrent.
Pepper spray is a self defense weapon intended to incapacitate human threats, and it is very effective at doing this due to its higher concentration of oleoresin capsicum. If you are serious about self defense, go purchase some pepper spray. If you are a hiker or camper in bear country, buy some bear spray.​

 

[FriendlyFire]

TIL what the difference is:

Although pepper spray and bear spray contain the same active chemical, they are not the same thing. Bear spray has a much lower concentration of oleoresin capsicum, and should only be used as a bear deterrent.
Pepper spray is a self defense weapon intended to incapacitate human threats, and it is very effective at doing this due to its higher concentration of oleoresin capsicum. If you are serious about self defense, go purchase some pepper spray. If you are a hiker or camper in bear country, buy some bear spray.​

Bear spray is both stronger and more powerful

Bear spray is “probably a weapon of choice because it’s more powerful, more pressurized, sprays longer distance [than standard pepper spray], and is easily available at outdoor sites and stores,”
Most bear sprays boast a capsaicin content of 2 percent, compared with 1.2 to 1.4 percent in most self-defense products
The strength of peppers is measured in Scoville heat units, or SHUs, which is the number of cups of sugar water it would take to fully neutralize the spice. A habanero pepper, among the hottest out there, has roughly 200,000 SHUs. Standard pepper sprays have around 1 million SHUs, while bear sprays pack 3 million SHUs, so it’s about three times as potent as the self-defense products.
It’s also dispensed more widely and forcefully, the experts agreed. Bear deterrents dispense in a fog pattern — vs. the stream output of many pepper sprays — making it more likely that the capsaicin will get into an aggressive animal’s eyes, nose and throat. Bear sprays are also pressurized to travel farther — 30 to 35 feet — than the smaller self-defense products.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...3c3870-87fb-11eb-bfdf-4d36dab83a6d_story.html

 

[innonimatu]

Laziness does not prove malice. You are saying that New York Times editorial staff knowingly kept up information it knew to be inaccurate. Claims require proof, not merely dark rumblings of a conspiracy.

In the NYT's "laziness", look at it as applied to the Hunter Biden laptop. They can't possibly be in the business of political intrigue and be so ignorant as to not know what is happening. If you thing that actively lying about it is "laziness" you're completely dumb. Biden lied outrageously, shamelessly, and his lies were covered up by the NYT, washed and backed by "reporters" who knew they were publishing literal "false news": the claim that the laptop was fake. Biden said:

There are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what he’s accusing me of is a Russian plant. Five former heads of the CIA, both parties, say what he’s saying is a bunch of garbage.

This was a deliberate lie to cover up his son's crimes, done with his complicity. The "former national intelligence folks" keep getting invoked to cover up the oligarch's crimes in the US. It's as rotten as Russia the upper class simply has even more control over the media than the russian oligarchs ever achieved inside Russia - where they actually conflicted with the nationalists. In the US the "national security" gangs have sold itself entirely decades ago.

And now that most official of propaganda organs for the american political classes (tied with the WP of course) also shamelessly reports on the fact that the data from the laptop was verified has has been used in investigations of Biden's crimes. Except the word "crime" is still not used because corruption and oligarchy is not called corruption and oligarchy while the individual is part of the untouchables.

Hunter's father was on the ballot,. And it was his father's influence that Hunter sold to whatever oligarchs around the world shopped with him. Now, like Capone, the investigation is about him not paying takes on the proceeds of his whitewashed crimes.

And now that Biden is looking like a lame duck due for replacement, the liars at the NYT finally report on the fact that the laptop was always considered genuine evidence.

 

[Ajidica]

So close to a year's necro.

 

[Birdjaguar]

This was a deliberate lie to cover up his son's crimes, done with his complicity. The "former national intelligence folks" keep getting invoked to cover up the oligarch's crimes in the US. It's as rotten as Russia the upper class simply has even more control over the media than the russian oligarchs ever achieved inside Russia - where they actually conflicted with the nationalists. In the US the "national security" gangs have sold itself entirely decades ago.

And now that most official of propaganda organs for the american political classes (tied with the WP of course) also shamelessly reports on the fact that the data from the laptop was verified has has been used in investigations of Biden's crimes. Except the word "crime" is still not used because corruption and oligarchy is not called corruption and oligarchy while the individual is part of the untouchables.

Hunter's father was on the ballot,. And it was his father's influence that Hunter sold to whatever oligarchs around the world shopped with him. Now, like Capone, the investigation is about him not paying takes on the proceeds of his whitewashed crimes.

Is this a thread about presidential nepotism and how a president might use his children for political gain or find ways to enrich is his family by being president?

Or is this about a major media entity spreading lies to the American public to enhance its standing with a president? Is it about that media entity using its star reporters or personalities to gain favor with with its political besties?

Or is this thread about political corruption where the president and his family need to be investigated for tax avoidance, fraud, or using high office for personal gain through spending government dollars in support of private companies?

 

[innonimatu]

It's a thread about how the "news media" acts as propaganda machines for factions in the imperial capital. Not as provider of actual factual, truthful news as a service to paying customers.
You don't pay for the "news", someone pays to have the "news" published to influence you.

 

[Birdjaguar]

So in the US the biggest offender is FoxNews. No other media empire commands as much swaying power with its audience or twists more lies into "truth" as they do.

BTW, I do pay for much of my news, such as it is. It probably costs me $1000 a year. Money well spent across a variety of points of view. Typically, I find the free ones are the biggest liars.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yes, yes. Remember the Maine. You do need to be savvy when it comes to listening to the paid liars. Political and professional of all sorts. But you know who the absolute worst ones are? The ones that will punch you in the mouth if you don't shut up, and they'll shoot you if the prior doesn't work. Impoverishing a man isn't that far off either.

NPR isn't free free either. That one is as it is because the local radio hosts regularly go begging from their broadcast-range listening area. The more they have to take sponsorships, the less "calm duck on head," or whatever it is they are, they get. And the more like everything else.