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Capto Iugulum: 1920 - 1939

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by EQandcivfanatic, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. J.K. Stockholme

    J.K. Stockholme Right Opposition

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    Spry, your making me feel nostalgic for the Confederation, :'(

    It is nice to have another voice in the fight against Moralism, convincing points, I must say, well written.
     
  2. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

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    To: Florida
    From: Vinland


    This is an alarming turn of affairs! We urge you to immediately halt your invasion of a fellow PADA member. Resolve what conflicts you have through diplomacy, and do not throw away the grand prosperity that has embraced our continent through this past decade of peace!
     
  3. Azale

    Azale Deity

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    From: President Lockwood of the Grand Republic of Florida
    To: Vinland
    CC: PADA, the world

    Vinland's reaction is, while disheartening, predictable. PADA has failed the Grand Republic for the last time. How many times must Proletarians and their sympathizers humiliate the great nations of the Earth? When will the debt of massacred Americans be repaid?

    The Jacksonians turn prole and then insist on subverting our body politic, our way of life, to theirs. They would have us ape the godless Negrotariat that slaughtered our brothers and sisters under God and Country, hacked them with their primitive weapons until they were as lifeless as the individual under proletarism.

    I will not have it, the Grand Republic will not have it, the Good People of the World will not have it, and God Almighty Himself will...not...have it!
     
  4. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

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    To: Florida
    From: Vinland


    You didn't say a single jävla word in the PADA social group. You've communicated absolutely nothing to us, and then proceed to declare that we have failed you?!? If you were opposed to the resolution of the Colorado conflict, you could have sent one jävla statement that it was unacceptable to you, and the agreement could have been renegotiated.

    Stop throwing about these ludicrous claims! Stop leaping towards violence at the first chance you get! Stop it! STOP! STOP! STOP! Helvete, we're trying so hard to get things to work between you two.

    So ease up your grip on your rifles. Breathe deeply, and explain in specific details what Jacksonia has done to provoke this conflict. Let Jacksonia explain its understanding of events. With calm heads at the helm and open communications, we may yet defuse this war before the first shot is fired. Let us not so hastily throw away this heretofore unmatched era of prosperous, democratic peace.
     
  5. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

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    Let all members of PADA remember what their governments have agreed to in the past. All active members of the Accord have pledged to support to uphold the tenets of the accord, and all of us are united in a defensive alliance. Should a blow be thrown against one of us, then all of us have pledged that we shall come to the aid of he who has suffered the blow.

    In Vinland, we have an idea of kamratskap. Mateship. Brotherhood. We nations of PADA are brothers. We don't all think the same things. We don't always agree with one another. But, when push comes to shove, we will help each other. We will rise to the defense of each other.

    Vinland, and many other nations in PADA, desperately does not want to see blood spilled, least of all between member states. But if Florida proceeds on this ruinous path, we wilhave no choice but to aid in the defense of Jacksonia against its invaders.

    Please do not let this come to be. I beseech the government of Florida to calm itself, consider the consequences its actions will bring upon the people of Florida, and the people of the Americas, and Halt! This! War!
     
  6. Nuka-sama

    Nuka-sama See ya! It has been a fun decade!

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    If Florida is willing to speak, Jacksonia is willing to listen. All of our disagreements can be solved with words, not violence. Be they the water of the Colorado, the Dams, say what you want to say, and we will listen, as going forward, hand in hand towards peace is far better than fighting a brutal and unnecessary war.
     
  7. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    A Letter to the Comte de Crolles
    Penned by Dr Jean-Louis de Valois, Professor of Moral Philosophy at the Catholic University of Rheims.
    University of Rheims Press Archive


    -

    On the occasion of the reprint of the 1912 manifesto of the septembrists I wish to respond by making certain clarifications regarding Catholic doctrine, the relationship between the Holy See and the Catholic Church and the moralist movement and liberalism in response to the prefatory remarks of the Comte de Crolles.

    To begin, I applaud the greater understanding of Catholic doctrine than is sometimes displayed by liberal and proletarist authors in the prefatory remarks in the reprint, despite other disagreements as to its content. The clear understanding that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility applies solely to dogmatic matters of faith and morals proclaimed ex cathedra is praiseworthy in as much as it rejects the myths and falsehoods advocated in certain quarters by adversaries of the Church. I also must express my applause in the acceptance of the Church’s dogmatic and infallible (for Church dogma by divine guarantee is free from error) teachings regarding morality and the nature of truth, something that the proletarists and more fundamentalist liberals reject and which the Church have strenuously opposed.

    With regards to papal opposition to liberalism, it is important here for the Comte to recall certain ontological realities fundamentally opposed to the Catholic Faith within liberalism. Although of course certain particulars of policy under septembrist governments have proven praiseworthy and in accord with Paul VI’s teaching (for liberalism despite its other errors borrows much from Catholic social teaching, although you may say he “reinvented the wheel” what he was truly doing was merely re-proposing that timeless teaching to a world in which many have forgot them), liberalism in generals ontology is what makes it fundamentally anathema to the Catholic religion. Its concept of freedom, and here I do not of course mean genuine liberty, those rights inherent to nature, but rather that conception of freedom which proceeds from radical individualism and undermines the foundational principles of the common good and the social contract, ultimately rejects the concept of obedience to legitimate authority and a duty to anything beyond the self. The homocentric nature of this “Freedom” leads men to privilege solely the passions and desires of individuals without reference society or community. This in the Church’s view only serves to promote vice and a conception that man has a “right” to do anything he wants, so long as it does not overtly and obviously harm anyone else as the prefatory remarks to the reprint exclaimed. This, in addition to being fallacious in the sense that an individual is not an atomistic agent but rather completely bound into the community he resides in (for everything he does affects other people without exception) also greatly concerns the Church because if man is the arbiter of what is right and what is not, and considers himself “free” to indulge every whim of his imagination without reference to duty to truth, or obedience to authority, he inevitably travels down a road of godlessness. Afterall, if man has no duty to fellow men and exists only to serve his own interests and defend his own “rights”, than why should he bow in obedience and duty to God and to the moral law? The answer of course is that he will reject religion, with man himself becoming his own deity and point of reference, actions and policy therefore would become oriented not by whether they are objectively right according to God’s decree, but by whether they make man “free”, be it the praiseworthy freedom from tyranny, the freedom from the interference of society undertaken in the interests of the good of the collective, or freedom from the sovereign rule of the Lord, a rule which itself liberates man and makes him truly free (for to reject God is to take up the chains of the devil and trap oneself in sin). Liberalisms ontology thus contains the seeds of atheism, a fundamental rejection of the Church’s teaching (and of religion in general) and a potential for great social degradation and indeed almost paradoxically tyranny itself, the specifics of which are known through papal encyclicals on the matter.

    Considering this, Pope Paul VI felt the need (particularly with regards to the extreme liberals, and the proletarists who reject the basic truths which the Christian world generally accepts and which are in some quarters wrongly attributed to liberals) to reassert stringently Catholic teaching and the necessity for a God centred view of life, that sees everything as being references to mans purpose, and to the good of the whole. This is why His Holiness indeed wrote the Doctrina Moralitas in Vita Politica in order that the newly rising ideology of moralism which attested (And attests) to be based in Christian principles did not philosophically divert from the timeless Christian teaching the Church has always proposed.

    This brings us to the Church’s relationship with the moralist movement. I must stress here that the Church is not moralist, and neither is moralism a product of the Church. This should be self-evident. Moralism is historically an indigenous movement of South American politics that bases itself in Catholic teaching, and which the Church has chosen to support as part of the fight against the forces of radical liberalism and proletarism on that continent, which would see religion marginalised. With regards to the former statement, that the Church is not moralist, this is true in the sense that one needn’t be moralist to be Catholic, merely accept and uphold with divine and Catholic faith all that the Church dogmatically teaches. Indeed I would note here that certain moralist doctrines, namely teetotalism and a total prohibition on gambling are not Church teaching. I would also note merely as a matter of correction that religious strife has occurred in societies where moralism is present only in Argentina and Paraguay. The former case is clearly a product of the moral and social license supported by the Argentine state in opposition to Christian morality which has inflamed pre-existing tensions between the Catholic and Protestant populations. The latter was an example of nationalistic anti-argentine sectarianism, a product of the doctrine of nationalism which both Septembrism and the Catholic Church condemn. Elsewhere, such as in Brazil, Uruguay, Venezuela and Colombia no sectarian violence of a similar nature has arisen.

    Finally, with regards to the Comte, we would urge him to make known what in his assessment is “unfounded nonsense” and retrograde. For although he rightly has supported the truth of the Church’s social teaching on a good number of matters (and erroneously proposed that liberalism is necessary to achieve the policy points inherent within that social teaching) he has not precisely outlined what he disapproves of beyond the rejection of absolute freedom of religion as a “right” (a topic addressed elsewhere). How afterall can the scholars within the plural world of Catholic (or indeed secular) philosophy (be it moralism, traditionalism, conservatism or so forth) reference the Comtes statements beyond a vague disapproval of moralism and an assertion of liberalism? We conclude therefore by saying that Septembrism in general needs to clarify what precisely it is opposed to in the moralist movement and deepen its philosophical proposition to reference precisely why it upholds the doctrines it does, and explain why, in its own assessment, absolute “freedom” as it proclaims is philosophically reasonable as compared to the Catholic teaching of truth as an ultimate imperative which all men are morally bound to adhere too. Before the moderate strains of liberalism (such as septembrism) which do accept some aspects of Christian teaching produce a sound philosophical foundation for the views they hold which do not stand in accord with Christian teaching, there is no basis on which they can truly criticise what the Church has proclaims (and indeed what moralism, which is distinct and separate proclaims) regarding its teachings since they have no basis on which to defend their own other than a rationally indefensible sentimentality.

    May, 1931

    -

    ooc: In spoilers

    Spoiler :
    good work Spryllino, very well written.

    My main criticism of your statement boils down to the fact you haven't actually made a philosophical argument against moralism as an ideology (or defined precisely where it is objectionable) but rather simply asserted that on policy the Septembrists have produced good things in accord with what Pope Paul VI desired, and that liberalism as such is the necessary way to achieving said liberties (thus making papal criticism bad).

    I responded by pointing out that liberalism to the catholic view is ontologically dangerous, and that your assertion as such is not necessarily a valid criticism of moralism precisely because you didn't produce a philosophical defence of liberalism as compared to a sentimental and utilitarian one, and didn't touch at all moralism (or Catholic teachings) philosophical foundations or in any way challenge it.

    I also made it clear that moralism and Catholicism are not synonymous and that moralism is not the "ideology of the Church" but rather a distinct political movement the Church has chosen to support in the fight against proletarism and fundamentalist liberalism. Also, I pointed out that your claim that moralism produces religious violence is empirically questionable, considering that only two nations where moralism is present as a powerful force have produced violent sectarianism, and these instances can be attributed to other factors.
     
  8. Grandkhan

    Grandkhan Telvanni Master Wizard

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    Um, EQ, did the project I started this year with the bunkers make it into my orders? It seems like it would have both annual spending attached to it for the volunteer program and be an actual project on top of that.
     
  9. Milarqui

    Milarqui Deity

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    OOC: Can't wait to see the nations willing to join the Balompié World Championship and the International Balompié Association...
     
  10. Grandkhan

    Grandkhan Telvanni Master Wizard

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    Pretty sure we already have one of those.
     
  11. Milarqui

    Milarqui Deity

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    Maybe the latter, but I have seen nothing about the former.
     
  12. Grandkhan

    Grandkhan Telvanni Master Wizard

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    Fivechar
     
  13. Milarqui

    Milarqui Deity

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    OK, then. My mistake. Then, let's make it a revival of the Balompié World Championship.

    EDIT: Have edited the previously written letter to take into account what you have shown me.
     
  14. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    TO: PADA
    FROM: Brazil


    Do not attack Florida. The nation has attempted diplomacy with Jacksonia, but as has been clear these past few years the Jacksonian government has turned to proletarism. They have directly interfered in the politics of Florida, without the consent of Florida, to no cares from PADA. Brazil, for one, does not believe Jacksonia should be allowed to cause these pains under the defense of the organization Brazil helped found to counter such efforts.

    TO: Colombia
    FROM: Brazil


    It is our duty to defend the Panama Canal with all of our might in times of trouble. We call upon Colombia to disallow military vessels from the Pacific from travelling to the Aztlan Gulf. If we allow free travel of warmongers through our canal, we may soon lose the canal to their opponents.

    TO: Florida and the United States of America
    FROM: Brazil


    We hope you both may bring a swift end to the Jacksonian proletarists, either through diplomatic or, as a last resort, military pressures.
     
  15. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    [I won't continue the an academic dialogue as the Comte de Crolles, because as you rightly point out I meant it to be essentially a sentimental and utilitarian defence, a line of thought that I felt needed discussing, and because I feel that I have achieved my main intention (namely to elucidate what liberals and the old Confederate establishment in this world actually think and to provide a reference post for people who want to know what the Confederation was all about), and because I've got RL stuff to do. Good reply though. :) ]
     
  16. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    ooc: I didn't expect you too, primarily the main point of my response was to give an example reply to that line of argument so that the idea of the academic atmosphere regarding the philosophical debate in the French States is transmitted for the benefit of the casual reader and for EQ when the update comes around. Since this has pretty much been done with J_K Stockholme and now yourself, I don't think I will be writing more essays on this in this session :p (I may be able to rattle them out with fair rapidity, but like everyone I have RL stuff to do as well)

    -

    IC:

    To: Member States of the PADA
    CC: Florida, Brazil & The United States.
    From: The Holy See


    The Holy See would urge PADA to refrain from military intervention in order to allow the possibility of a peaceful resolution the chance to grow, and in order to prevent this conflict from expanding in scope beyond its current belligerents. A new great war emerging from this conflict is in no ones interest, and would be a fundamental perversion of PADA's self-proclaimed goal of maintaining and promoting peace in the Americas.

    ~ Sec. Relations with States.
     
  17. ShadowNX

    ShadowNX Prince

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    TO: PADA
    FROM: Venezuela


    We urge restraint from PADA and its members in the ongoing conflict between Jacksonia and Florida. Also note any external aggression taken against Florida by outside forces will not be accepted and could lead to further instability in the region.

    TO: Florida
    FROM: Venezuela


    We urge you to re-enter talks with Jacksonia and request a return to the negotiating table. Venezuela is willing to stand as a negotiator between both parties if needed, also know that Venezuela stands and supports you through this difficult period.
     
  18. Azale

    Azale Deity

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    The time for negotiations has ended. The Incidents in China prove this, the Intolerable Accords prove this, and the racial massacres of Americans by the Negrotariat prove this.

    PADA will be destroyed as an organization if stands with proletarism, as will anyone else.
     
  19. Ahigin

    Ahigin Emperor

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    A ghost follower's comment:

    Wow, that seems like a rushed decision. Based on the stats, I wouldn't say Florida possesses any serious military advantage over Jacksonia, so it's not like it's gonna be an easy imperialist takeover. And now it clearly proclaims destruction of PADA and proletarist countries as its goal, thus multiplying its enemies (it'd be very strange if PADA just let it slide) and making itself look like an obvious aggressor, without having any serious military support from other countries. I don't count Brazil as a strong ally; sorry, but all of its military operations since the beginning of the century have ended with defeats, not counting joint destruction of outnumbered Spanish colonial garrisons in the Great War. Brazil's strength is in diplomacy, as a potential leader of the Moralist Axis. Maybe, by 1940s it will turn into a decent military power, but, sorry, not yet, based both on stats and the type of player Luckymoose seems to be.

    In other words, Florida, Y U SO SUICIDAL?

    P.S. I know that tons of stuff is happening, and if some players are concerned that my comment may affect other players' in-game decisions, then please let me know. I will delete this post in order not to mess up the game.
     
  20. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    Are you egging me on? DO YOU WANT TO SEE WAR? I will bring a firestorm of hell and death upon the world to correct this besmirching of my name!

    EDIT: Do not let stats deceive you, or your misunderstanding of the role Brazil plays. My small standing army is not an accurate statement on my military power.
     

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