Christian facists on the march?

[.Shane.]

....that has changed the world from being a WARRIOR mentality that destroyed both the Mayans and the Aztecs, and all the rest.

Sorry, but that's just wrong.

Here's some general info on the Aztecs.

The primary reasons the Aztecs (and most other Indian cultures) "lost" the clash of civilizations was Europe was 2-fold:

1. Technology
2. Biology

Technology in the sense that Europeans had gunpowder, armor, warships, cavalry, etc....

Biology in that most Indians DID NOT die due to evil European conquerors, but fell prey to diseases that their immune systems did not have centuries of exposure to. Its estimate that 90% of Indian populations died of disease. And, no, the disease was not spread maliciously. Sure, there are documented cases of things like smallpox-laced blankets being intentionally given to tribes, but the overwhelming # of deaths were simply incidental to contact.

Here are some good, legitimate works of scholarship and history on the subject:

Alfred Crosby-The Colombian Exchange: This is perhaps the definitive work on the massive consequences of the interaction between Europe and the "New World". It examines not just disease, but the exchange of flaura and fauna and how the introduction of new crops/diseases/animals completely changed the course of history in both parts of the world.

Jared Diamond-Guns, Germs, and Steel: Another highly thought of work, that argues that what allowed Europeans to dominate the world was superior technology combined with a weathered gene pool.

Tzvetan Todorov-The Conquest of America: The Question of the Other: This work is not as highly regarded as the other 2 mentioned, as it is more narrowly focused for one thing. But, its an interesting examination of the Spanish conquest of the Aztecs and does examine religious perspectives.

I strongly recommend Crosby and Diamond. Todorov is more specific to the discussion of the Aztecs. Now, there are other good works out there, so, this is just a sampling.

 

[Katheryn]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/koranjews.html

Jews are cursed, according to the Koran.

Take a look. Here is the link.

 

[Sidhe]

They did not live in the same hemisphere, so it didn't really matter.

I see so geography is the only important factor in your belief, so polar coordinates make up the whole of your law. Katheryn, you'd be better served by acknowledging that you are not the biggest authority on world religion or politics, you seem to have some idea that everything you say is self evident, but in all honesty you don't actually have any real knowledge outside of your neck of the woods. You can keep decrying us as heathens and ignorant and unwilling to listen, but unless you really have a deep understanding about what your talking about, it's hard to know what it is your talking about other than some sort of conspicuous hatred, and intolerance, but anyway welcome to the real world. Not everyone exists in planet Katheryn.

 

[.Shane.]

So Martin Luther King Jr.'s words means nothing. Mind you that King is a Christian and he did pushed forward for civil rights. Both African American and Caucasian Christians (Most from the north and there are some from the south as well) pushed forward for full Civil Rights.

/sigh

You completely missed my point. MLK was great, DUH. But there have been people who opposed civil rights and while chanting the name "Jesus Christ."

 

[Gilder]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/koranjews.html

Jews are cursed, according to the Koran.

Take a look. Here is the link.

Do have some historical evidence that Muslims have been violent to people of Judiasm more than Christians?

 

[Trajan12]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/koranjews.html

Jews are cursed, according to the Koran.

Take a look. Here is the link.

I didn't know the Quran said things like that!

 

[Katheryn]

Sorry, but that's just wrong.

Here's some general info on the Aztecs.

The primary reasons the Aztecs (and most other Indian cultures) "lost" the clash of civilizations was Europe was 2-fold:

1. Technology
2. Biology

Technology in the sense that Europeans had gunpowder, armor, warships, cavalry, etc....

Biology in that most Indians DID NOT die due to evil European conquerors, but fell prey to diseases that their immune systems did not have centuries of exposure to. Its estimate that 90% of Indian populations died of disease. And, no, the disease was not spread maliciously. Sure, there are documented cases of things like smallpox-laced blankets being intentionally given to tribes, but the overwhelming # of deaths were simply incidental to contact.

Here are some good, legitimate works of scholarship and history on the subject:

Alfred Crosby-The Colombian Exchange: This is perhaps the definitive work on the massive consequences of the interaction between Europe and the "New World". It examines not just disease, but the exchange of flaura and fauna and how the introduction of new crops/diseases/animals completely changed the course of history in both parts of the world.

Jared Diamond-Guns, Germs, and Steel: Another highly thought of work, that argues that what allowed Europeans to dominate the world was superior technology combined with a weathered gene pool.

Tzvetan Todorov-The Conquest of America: The Question of the Other: This work is not as highly regarded as the other 2 mentioned, as it is more narrowly focused for one thing. But, its an interesting examination of the Spanish conquest of the Aztecs and does examine religious perspectives.

I strongly recommend Crosby and Diamond. Todorov is more specific to the discussion of the Aztecs. Now, there are other good works out there, so, this is just a sampling.

Excuse me, but I would think that the new archeology found would supercede these old books. (except the Guns, Germs and Steel) The link I provided shows the new archaeology discovered in the Yucatan recently. It comes from the Archaeology Institute.

The 'germ' factor we hadn't discussed yet, however that can hardly be blamed on Christianity, can it? I suppose if it could, you guys would find a way!

Actually, all of the newest research, the newest findings DEBUNK the old guilt ridden concepts of the terrible Christians destroying pristine paradises all over the world.

 

[Masquerouge]

Your problem here, you absolute illogical reasoning, your fallacy, is that you are comparing 1100 AD Europe to 1860 America. That is comparing apples to oranges.

1860 America? When did I speak of 1860 America?

I can see that you have been programmed, brainwashed to hate the West.

Hate the West? Are you crazy? Just because I do not hate everything that's NOT the West, doesn't mean I hate the West.
I believe that between the two of us, I'm the moderate.

Tell me, why does everyone want to live here? Why do you want to trash it? Bring unassimilated cultures into it? Why don't you THINK for a change? Instead of regurgitate ultra left wing guilt complexes?

Again, just because I have a realistic view of history and especially of Western history, doesn't mean I want to trash it.
I think the big difference between you and me is that I'm secure enough in my values so I don't need to feel superior to feel good.

The Christianized West may not be perfect indeed, but IT IS THE BEST THAT HAS EVER BEEN AROUND IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!

Being the best doesn't mean being perfect, and to me it seems that you just can't accept that. What I'm pointing, my ultra-left wing agenda if you will, is all the little and huge flaws that the Christianized West had/has, because all too often you seem to assume everything was perfect and flawless.

You should be on your knees thanking GOD you weren't born in Somalia, or Indonesia, in India, Pakistan or God forbid, in Africa.

Yeah, apparently God is not too found of these places.

It is because of people like you, brainwashed by guilt ridden idiots, that is going to be responsible for the west falling. And you have Sharia to look forward to! Well the good thing is, you can have all the women you want, if you can look at them!

The West falling. pffff. What does that mean? Barbarian hordes? If there's one thing History teaches is that people/countries rise and fall on a regular basis.
Furthermore you seem to believe the West is one giant united bloc, while it is not.
And Sharia? Don't make me laugh. If the West falls, it's certainly not because of Islam. My money's on China.

 

[Katheryn]

I didn't know the Quran said things like that!

There is plenty more from the Hadiths and Fatwas and all kinds of other material.

http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2006/07/21/jews-as-apes-and-swine/

http://www.teachkidspeace.org/doc142.php

http://www.memri.org

They teach hate for Jews all day long on TV.

 

[GenMarshall]

Same here, but I think it's a tad (read: very) irresponsible to pick and choose who we want to consider Christians. Agree or disagree with their actions, they considered themselves Christians.

It just irks me that they use Jesus Christ in the name of hate . I see them as misguided Christians who are blinded by hate and power.

 

[Gilder]

There is plenty more from the Hadiths and Fatwas and all kinds of other material.

http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2006/07/21/jews-as-apes-and-swine/

http://www.teachkidspeace.org/doc142.php

http://www.memri.org

They teach hate for Jews all day long on TV.

But is there any history of them hating Judiasm? Is there any history outside modern history that they have done so?

 

[Masquerouge]

There is plenty more from the Hadiths and Fatwas and all kinds of other material.

http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2006/07/21/jews-as-apes-and-swine/

http://www.teachkidspeace.org/doc142.php

http://www.memri.org

They teach hate for Jews all day long on TV.

I don't know of one people that did not teach hate for the Jews at any point in its history.

 

[Trajan12]

I don't know of one people that did not teach hate for the Jews at any point in its history.

But this is actually in the religious text of the Quran. Man, kind of hard to defend. At least we have Jesus to repeal all those skeletons in our closet.

 

[Irish Caesar]

But this is actually in the religious text of the Quran. Man, kind of hard to defend. At least we have Jesus to repeal all those skeletons in our closet.

Matthew 27:25

 

[.Shane.]

Excuse me, but I would think that the new archeology found would supercede these old books. (except the Guns, Germs and Steel) The link I provided shows the new archaeology discovered in the Yucatan recently. It comes from the Archaeology Institute.

The 'germ' factor we hadn't discussed yet, however that can hardly be blamed on Christianity, can it? I suppose if it could, you guys would find a way!

Actually, all of the newest research, the newest findings DEBUNK the old guilt ridden concepts of the terrible Christians destroying pristine paradises all over the world.

Your reply has a certain amazing obtuseness!

Because if you were reading what I'd been posting you'd realize the following;
1. Did I blame Christianity for germs? no.
2. Did I blame Christianity for destroying the world? no.
3. Did I say the Aztecs were great or peace-loving? no.

Crosby's work considered is still considered the leading work on this topic. It was originally published in ~1973.

You've lept to all these ridiculous conclusions that I'm not even offering. You also completely dismiss 2 legit works on the subject, but in so doing expose that you have no idea what you're talking about, since they
A. they are not works of archaeology
B. they are not proved or disproved by archaeology, and, in fact, they may all support each other in the end.
C. the archaeology you're refering is about the Mayans. I'm talking about the Aztecs in one sense and the whole of the Western Hemisphere in another.
D. And, yes, the Aztecs had some horrible practices. As did the Spanish. Neither excuses the other.

For instance Columbian Exchange is about the vast biological exchange between two civilizations and you refute it w/ a 500 word essay about some Mayan cannibals? HUH? They are complete non-sequitors.

You asked for some information and I gave you some of the most credible stuff in academia and you dismissed it out of hand. This continues to support my prior assertions about your point of view. You are not interested in a true, objective assessment, you are interested in proselytizing.

 

[Katheryn]

1860 America? When did I speak of 1860 America?


Hate the West? Are you crazy? Just because I do not hate everything that's NOT the West, doesn't mean I hate the West.
I believe that between the two of us, I'm the moderate.



Again, just because I have a realistic view of history and especially of Western history, doesn't mean I want to trash it.
I think the big difference between you and me is that I'm secure enough in my values so I don't need to feel superior to feel good.


Being the best doesn't mean being perfect, and to me it seems that you just can't accept that. What I'm pointing, my ultra-left wing agenda if you will, is all the little and huge flaws that the Christianized West had/has, because all too often you seem to assume everything was perfect and flawless.


Yeah, apparently God is not too found of these places.



The West falling. pffff. What does that mean? Barbarian hordes? If there's one thing History teaches is that people/countries rise and fall on a regular basis.
Furthermore you seem to believe the West is one giant united bloc, while it is not.
And Sharia? Don't make me laugh. If the West falls, it's certainly not because of Islam. My money's on China.

As I said many many times, I don't think Christians are perfect, I have always said, and will say again that they are SINNERS.

However, that said, Christiandom has always PROGRESSED. Yes, it has been two steps forward, one back. But that doesn't mean that it isn't progressing, that it isn't a good system. A system we should protect from outside forces coming in and changing it because we feel guilty for our past.

They are not laughing in the Philippines, in Somalia, in Thailand, in the UK, where they have a huge problem on their hands in London. Nor in the Netherlands, or Denmark or Norway, or Brussels. France is happy because only 200 cars are being burned each night. The police say they have a "permanent intifada". In Canada, they nearly gave the Muslims Sharia two years ago. The women protested aggressively and it didn't happen, but it nearly did, and may have if 9-11 didn't happen.

They are going to give Sharia to the south in Thailand, in the Philippines it would already have been done, except the Muslims are now demanding more land.

Laugh it up, but if the West has no backbone, it will surely sweep away our culture. It is APATHY that surely destroys cultures more than anything else. That is what happened in Rome. I imagine they felt 'guilty' too. But then, I already posted that.


And now, I must leave, my daughter is in a big show tonight. Gotta get ready. "Everything's coming up Roses!" Can you guess what show that is?

 

[Trajan12]

Matthew 27:25

What does that have to do with what I posted?

 

[Masquerouge]

As I said many many times, I don't think Christians are perfect, I have always said, and will say again that they are SINNERS.

However, that said, Christiandom has always PROGRESSED. Yes, it has been two steps forward, one back. But that doesn't mean that it isn't progressing, that it isn't a good system. A system we should protect from outside forces coming in and changing it because we feel guilty for our past.

Well that's a lot more tame than your previous assertions.

They are not laughing in the Philippines, in Somalia, in Thailand, in the UK, where they have a huge problem on their hands in London. Nor in the Netherlands, or Denmark or Norway, or Brussels. France is happy because only 200 cars are being burned each night. The police say they have a "permanent intifada". In Canada, they nearly gave the Muslims Sharia two years ago. The women protested aggressively and it didn't happen, but it nearly did, and may have if 9-11 didn't happen.

They are going to give Sharia to the south in Thailand, in the Philippines it would already have been done, except the Muslims are now demanding more land.

Laugh it up, but if the West has no backbone, it will surely sweep away our culture. It is APATHY that surely destroys cultures more than anything else. That is what happened in Rome. I imagine they felt 'guilty' too. But then, I already posted that.

Again, if you're worried about the West's future, look to Asia, not Saudi Arabia.

And now, I must leave, my daughter is in a big show tonight. Gotta get ready. "Everything's coming up Roses!" Can you guess what show that is?

Have a nice evening!

 

[.Shane.]

And now, I must leave, my daughter is in a big show tonight. Gotta get ready. "Everything's coming up Roses!" Can you guess what show that is?

The Vagina Monologues?

 

[Masquerouge]

The Vagina Monologues?

you win.