Civil Unrest in Jamaica

[bombshoo]

Surprised we haven't had a thread on this yet today...

At least 60 civilians have been killed in the Jamaican capital of Kingston as police stormed a drug kingpin's stronghold while violence spread to outlying regions.

Hospital sources told AFP that more than 60 bodies had so far been unloaded at a morgue in one of Kingston's main hospitals. Another 32 people have been injured and more than 200 arrested.

The clashes broke out when military and police officials attempted to arrest accused drug lord Christopher Dudus Coke.

Plumes of smoke have hung over Kingston since security forces smashed through barricades erected last week around the Tivoli Gardens housing estate to thwart the government's bid to extradite Coke to the United States.

Police reportedly came under fire in parts of West Kingston, and a police station was set ablaze after being abandoned by besieged officers who had run out of ammunition.

Most of the million tourists who flock to the island every year do not visit Kingston -- long dubbed one of the murder capitals of the world, with 1,700 murders recorded in 2010 out of a population of 2.8 million.

The US Justice Department has labeled Coke one of the "world's most dangerous narcotics kingpins." He is accused of leading an international gang dubbed The Shower Posse for the number of bullets it has rained on foes. US prosecutors say the notorious group sells marijuana and crack cocaine mostly in the New York area.

Prime Minister Bruce Golding expressed regret over "the loss of lives of members of the security forces, and those of innocent law abiding citizens who were caught in the cross fire."

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=127757&sectionid=351020706

So some talking points...

-Is it wrong for the U.S. to demand extradition when it creates such discontent in Jamaica?

-If this Mr Coke is really such a benefactor to the Jamaican public, what will happen in his absence? Is it wrong for local Jamaicans that are in no way involved in crime to turn to him if they need help? How can you stop them from going to people like him for help? This isn't a Jamaica-only phenomena so how do you deal with this kind of issue in general?

-Between the oil spill, Mexican drug war, Haitian earthquake and this, doesn't it seem like the Caribbean is basically screwed as of late? How will this effect tourism this year?

Edit: Changed to a more concise article for the OP. For a more descriptive article see here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8699834.stm

 

[mangxema]

Don't worry about a thing 'cause every little thing gonna be alright.

 

[bombshoo]

Don't worry about a thing 'cause every little thing gonna be alright.

I thought about giving the thread a Bob Marley or Cool Runnings Joke for a name, but with 60 dead it seemed kind of unclassy and macabre to me. ;/

 

[mangxema]

I thought giving the thread a Bob Marley or Cool Runnings Joke for a name, but with 60 dead it seemed kind of unclassy and macabre to me. ;/

Sorry, it was literally the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this story on the news.

Having glanced at the article... there's a drug kingpin named Mr. Coke!? That's... awesome.

People get help wherever they can find it. Hence, loan sharks.

 

[bombshoo]

Sorry, it was literally the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this story on the news.

Having glanced at the article... there's a drug kingpin named Mr. Coke!? That's... awesome.

People get help wherever they can find it. Hence, loan sharks.

I'm not the least bit offended. I laughed at "Mr. Coke" as well. I simply wanted to be sensitive to other people's...potential sensitivities...

Regardless, considering the amount of complaining we had over the lack of international relations discussion in OT as of late in another thread, I'm kind of disappointed to not see this get much attention when it was probably the big news of the day.

 

[_random_]

Well, to be fair, it's pretty late on a Tuesday night for much posting to be going on.

 

[Bugfatty300]

If mangxema gets to then so do I.

Deep down im da earth were me put me ganja
Bablyon comes and lights it up on fire

Big stinking helicopta float tru de air
What they call em they call em weedeater
I dig up me stinkin rocket launcher
And in de air despense the helicopta

Call me da ganja farmer

 

[Masada]

I'd be going to Jamaica next year if I could. Low prices like post-bombing Bali!

 

[Bigfoot3814]

I thought giving the thread a Bob Marley or Cool Runnings Joke for a name, but with 60 dead it seemed kind of unclassy and macabre to me. ;/

Not entirely. Back in the 70s at the height of political violence in Jamaica Bob Marley was a source of unity and a messenger of peace. Most famously at the One Love Peace Concert in Kingston he brought the two main party leaders on stage and held their hands together above his head in a gesture of cooperation.



Jus' sayin.

-If this Mr Coke is really such a benefactor to the Jamaican public, what will happen in his absence? Is it wrong for local Jamaicans that are in no way involved in crime to turn to him if they need help? How can you stop them from going to people like him for help? This isn't a Jamaica-only phenomena so how do you deal with this kind of issue in general?

I'm gonna say that removing criminals from a community is generally a good thing. I'm pretty sure every organized crime leader in history has made an attempt to be a quote-un-quote benefactor to the community. Even in that Chappele Show episode where they make fun of the legal system, crack cocaine dealer Tron was like "On Thanksgiving I be passin' out turkeys like Neno Brown baby!" It's in their best interest to have the passive support or even just dependency of the people so that they can operate more freely. At the same time, it's the responsibility of the individual within the community to not do business with drug dealers and loan sharks.

-Between the oil spill, Mexican drug war, Haitian earthquake and this, doesn't it seem like the Caribbean is basically screwed as of late? How will this effect tourism this year?

Well it's important to remember that like the article says, tourists in Jamaica don't really visit Kingston. A tourist who winds up in Kingston, if they have any sense, probably looks around for about two seconds, realizes they're in what's really a 3rd-world country, and gets the heck outta there and back to the beach. So I'm skeptical that tourism will be significantly affected. Does anybody know if the Spring break crowd to Cancun or Tijuana was notably different this year due to the drug war? I think the economy is hurting tourism more than anything really.

Hi everybody by the way, it's been a while.

EDIT: @Bugfatty300 Whattup to Marlon Asher!

 

[dirtyparrot]

From my knowledge, the Jamaican police and other branches of government are pretty corrupt (and are involved in drug dealing, etc). But, on the other hand the US is making the request for extradition, and I'm sure that nobody thought that this would simply be a walk in the park to get this guy. So, if they want him, they ought to provide at least help in capturing him.

 

[Mad Man]

No we shouldn't interfere with there affairs unless they ask.

 

[nonconformist]

The night seems to fade
while the moonlight lingers on
there is magic
in Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiingston town

 

[Grimz101]

He'll be replaced within months, I just don't see the point.

 

[useless]

No we shouldn't interfere with there affairs unless they ask.

never stopped you with iraq or afghanistan

 

[Mad Man]

no but they had it coming

 

[useless]

wow your an abhorrent human being i bet the vietnamese had it comming when you used agent orange HOO-RAH

 

[Mad Man]

no but they had it coming when we used oxiclean

 

[illram]

So what's going on with this then? I've only recently been following this story. Why is this guy considered the Robin Hood of Jamaica?

In reading the stories I'm a little confused (appalled?) at the lack of clarity as to whether these deaths are members of his gang or civilians caught in the crossfire. I have basically zero trust in the competence or integrity if Jamaican police based on numerous things so I am thinking this may be a mini humanitarian crisis here.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Pablo Escobar had a similar "Robin Hood" image. He built churches, stadiums, houses for the poor, etc. Basically he just purchased their loyalty. I suspect that what's been going on with this Coke guy.

 

[illram]

Also news reports seem to indicate the guy escaped the area before the crackdown began. If the police and the government are as corrupt as we all know them to be it's likely this guy knew what was coming and had time to get out.

The comments of tacit approval from Washington following the story also struck me as slightly shocking, as if the guy saying it (can't remember who it was, some no name) had no idea of the death toll.

It just seems crazy to me that you have to kill 73 people (likely more) to try and catch a gang lord. That kind of strikes me as something akin to a serious military operation than a police manhunt. Violent corrupt police + poor slums + violent gang lord + nobody really caring = bad.