[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[MrRadar]

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the updates we have alongside DLC1 and our first Community Update the following month."
<...>
"We do have some balance changes for Diplo victory in the works for one of the earlier updates"

Well, those are the things I want now to see the most, above all else. With big hopes and even bigger dread to see those hopes die once again.

"I think of them like ice cream toppings. You want to put gummi bears and sprinkles and chocolate syrup on your ice cream cone? Go for it."
<...>
Answering question "so something like more modular approach to set of rules for specific game? Like for example I can enable/disable corporations from civ4 or pollution from civ3?" Anton replied "Yep, like that!"

Well, this is interesting and even more interesting what will be deemed a "standard" game for all sorts of benchmarks. Everything in, all modes on? Can't wait to play such a game!

 

[__jack__]

Yes. Because they are making New Frontiers and are releasing more premium content. If they weren't making this new content would we still be getting these patches and would these bugs be fixed? I'm not so sure.

Could they be fixed by us with a DLL release? Yes

We now have to trust Firaxis completely that they are not going to leave the game in a broken state once they have to move on because of business pressures. Business pressures that are going to inevitably come because well... that's business

We tried to fix most of exploits seen on CPL or by the CivFR folks through BBG/BBS. Truth is most fixes are bandaids at best blocking some UI elements... But with access to the DLL or at least having an extensive list of lua functions we could do so MUCH more.

I perfectly understand the logic of "mods are free" "DLC are paid" => by safe keeping the sourcecode we ensure more revenues.

It is a simply a bad myopic economic rational.

"mods are free" but so are modders. They would have higher quality content produced by the community at a 0 cost increase their user base and ultimately they would make more by then offering a couple of high quality Civ DLC.

 

[Absolution]

Moderator Action: <snip>

If you can’t post in a civil manner, you should reconsider whether you should post. Browd
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

As a Venezuelan living in Venezuela, i'd be offended if they DO NOT add the "Gran" in the title, specially if it's lead by Bolivar. If they just make it Colombia, then it'll feel like they're only putting in Colombia and ignoring Venezuela (and Ecuador but no one cares about them).

(Btw USA is NOT to blame for our current situation, 20 years of bad government are. No one gives a **** about the "invasion" other than the dictatorship. If anything the majority wishes we got one. A proper takeover)

I'm sorry if you were offended - I had no idea that any of that bears any negative national connotation in today's South America.

Anyway, apart from the fact that the state was named Colombia, with Gran being a historiographical additive - I also view Bolivar as an acceptable leader for Colombia in Civ simply because this is what he was eventually best known for.
I see it similiar to William II, duke of Normandy. It makes more sense to include him in Civ as another leader for England, rather than as a leader of Normandy, even though the latter was his homeland.

The only puncture in the Colombia issue is that it is also the name of a current smaller state. "Colombia" at the times of Bolivar obviously had a wider meaning than it has today. When achknowledging this, I guess there is no logical reason for Venezuelans to be offended.
Of course there is still an emotional connotation to play its part, and this is the place to discuss - how strong it is today, and is it strong enough to require the additive Gran.

If I was fundementally wrong in any of my historical assumptions - I'd be glad if you guys add to it or corret it in the following comments.

 

[oSiyeza]

I don't care for that either, but I never saw it as anything except a visual effect.

Of course you are totally free to not care of that particular system.

And I dont know if anyone really likes the religious combat or the vissual effects of it. I actually think the vissual effect are of bad taste and out of place, and that the religious combat is the worst system in the game. So I just ignore it most of the time.

In the poll of this forum regarding the 3 best and worst things in the game, the Religious System and the Diplomacy in general (WC in particular), together with the repetitive late game, were on top of the list of the parts of the game most people did not like and less people did like.

 

[pokiehl]

I perfectly understand the logic of "mods are free" "DLC are paid" => by safe keeping the sourcecode we ensure more revenues.

It is a simply a bad myopic economic rational.

"mods are free" but so are modders. They would have higher quality content produced by the community at a 0 cost increase their user base and ultimately they would make more by then offering a couple of high quality Civ DLC.

I really don't understand this trope of "Firaxis is scared of good mods because they will hurt DLC sales!"

It's certainly not the case. Mod users are an absolute minority of Civ 6 players ESPECIALLY now that Civ 6 has proliferated to consoles; these ports have no access to modding.

So it's not some competition or fear Firaxis has with modders (which is honestly a silly concept). There's some other reason and IMO it likely has to do with 2K wanting to protect their assets, especially in the face of new competitors like Humankind on the horizon.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

The key question for them is: Would you buy Civilization if mods were not a part of a game?
If the vast majority of people would respond yes then the future of Civ modding is rather clear.
The second part is how the modders community affect Word-of-Mouth marketing if it's still a thing. I am an analyst, not a marketing specialist, so maybe it's not so important today, and internet buzz (2-month content packs can boost it quite well) improves sales much better.

 

[Casworon]

The key question for them is: Would you buy Civilization if mods were not a part of a game?
If the vast majority of people would respond yes then the future of Civ modding is rather clear.
The second part is how the modders community affect Word-of-Mouth marketing if it's still a thing. I am an analyst, not a marketing specialist, so maybe it's not so important today, and internet buzz (2-month content packs can boost it quite well) improves sales much better.

I think mods are primarily good for long tail sales. I know personally i have bought 10 year old games because i heard there was a really good mod that allows the game too still hold up.

 

[pokiehl]

The key question for them is: Would you buy Civilization if mods were not a part of a game?
If the vast majority of people would respond yes then the future of Civ modding is rather clear.
The second part is how the modders community affect Word-of-Mouth marketing if it's still a thing. I am an analyst, not a marketing specialist, so maybe it's not so important today, and internet buzz (2-month content packs can boost it quite well) improves sales much better.

That isn't the question at all. No DLL access does not mean no modding; this is a false dichotomy. Aside from the DLL Civ 6 is extremely mod friendly. The devs have gone above and beyond in comparison to V.

 

[kaspergm]

the irony is that if the game were good, there's would've been no need for mods in the first place.

Meh, that's sort of an empty statement imo. One man's "good" may not be another's; there'll always be a demand for mods to cater to personal desires and needs.

Wrt. DLL source not being released [short-term], if we wonder a bit into tinfoil territory, is there any way this could be related to certain studios starting to make competing games, and they not wanting them to look into the code, or is that unlikely? Just asking out of curiosity for the opinions from people more qualified than me to judge on that question.

 

[Xur]

This is the last thing I needed. Any talk about a potential patch?

 

[pokiehl]

Meh, that's sort of an empty statement imo. One man's "good" may not be another's; there'll always be a demand for mods to cater to personal desires and needs.

Wrt. DLL source not being released [short-term], if we wonder a bit into tinfoil territory, is there any way this could be related to certain studios starting to make competing games, and they not wanting them to look into the code, or is that unlikely? Just asking out of curiosity for the opinions from people more qualified than me to judge on that question.

I suggest that above but really no one here can possibly know.

 

[pokiehl]

This is the last thing I needed. Any talk about a potential patch?

I know you like to bash the game frequently but if you had watched their video you'd have heard that with every single one of these DLC pack releases they're including free patches and updates to the main game as well and they even hinted at these patches including exciting content.

 

[Vandlys]

Except you don't know what all the courses are, and you have to wait a year to get all of them. And you slice part of one course to dangle it as a marketing ploy to make people buy the whole thing due to fomo. I get it, I don't have to buy anything I don't want to, but it doesn't make it less of a scummy move.

To me all of this just seems like a worse deal than an expansion. You pay the same, or even more in the case of Rise and Fall, and you get less, stretched over a year.
It only makes sense if there are 5 people left working on Civ VI and everyone else's moved to Civ VII.

To be fair to Firaxis, most of those decisions are probably made by 2K, not by them, so I don't want to be too harsh on them. I just wish they would be more consistent with fixing and balancing the game, as many more issues still remain. Luckily I've been able to use mods to get a decent UI experience, but it looks like the same will not happen with the AI.

All of that is a valid point, and your rightful opinion, but it has nothing to do with what I was stating. I was merely stating that there is no evidence that DLC will be locked behind a pre-order.

 

[Vandlys]

They finally answered the question of the source code, they have no plan to release it, which mean I'm done with civ6, and Firaxis, no more mods from me on that platform.

That's horrendous news : ( Can't believe Firaxis would pull their support for mods like this.

I really don't understand this trope of "Firaxis is scared of good mods because they will hurt DLC sales!"

It's certainly not the case. Mod users are an absolute minority of Civ 6 players ESPECIALLY now that Civ 6 has proliferated to consoles; these ports have no access to modding.

So it's not some competition or fear Firaxis has with modders (which is honestly a silly concept). There's some other reason and IMO it likely has to do with 2K wanting to protect their assets, especially in the face of new competitors like Humankind on the horizon.

The key question for them is: Would you buy Civilization if mods were not a part of a game?
If the vast majority of people would respond yes then the future of Civ modding is rather clear.
The second part is how the modders community affect Word-of-Mouth marketing if it's still a thing. I am an analyst, not a marketing specialist, so maybe it's not so important today, and internet buzz (2-month content packs can boost it quite well) improves sales much better.

After 2.000 hours, I was actually thinking of letting Civ go and not buying any of its content anymore. Thanks to some great mods (mainly P0khiel, Gedemon, Sukritact) I've been delving deep into the game again and will immediately buy the Frontier Pass, hoping it will be good and made better by mods.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

The only puncture in the Colombia issue is that it is also the name of a current smaller state. "Colombia" at the times of Bolivar obviously had a wider meaning that it has today.

People offended by Bolivar and Gran Columbia incoporating their countries would be like Netherlands being offended by Charles Quint, or a vast part of central Europe being offended by Barbarossa. Borders and frontiers change, and the France of Catherine or Eleanor is not the same as today's France.

Also, we saw nobody being offended by Victoria, and she had the hand over half of the world.


Concerning the DLL: I'll be honest, I'm part of the players that absolutely don't care that they don't release it today.
I was part of the people thinking "if you need mods to play a game, why buying the game in the first place?". Like, I had a hard time understanding why Paradox always put so much incentive in the modding capabilities way before the game was even released (Imperator & CK3). But now I understand that mods could be good and necessary for some people. Not me: I'm the kind of player, when seeing all of the mod, just think "oh, my, what should I choose? Too much choice" and I ended not choosing anything and playing vanilla.

With one most exception: complete conversion mods. I'm a huge fan of the Vox Populi mod. But has it not been updated and developped waaaay after Civ V BNW came out? I mean, for me, yes, the modding community take care of the game when devs stop.

To make it short: I was surprised when I saw so much of you take the non-release of the DLL as a treason. But, hey, if it's so important for you, you have the right to complain. I'm just not sure if you're vocal enough about it to make it change.

 

[GenyaArikado]

The only puncture in the Colombia issue is that it is also the name of a current smaller state. "Colombia" at the times of Bolivar obviously had a wider meaning than it has today. When achknowledging this...

...and the best way to acknowledge this is by adding the Gran in front of Colombia. For us Colombia and Gran Colombia just doesn't read the same. There is no logical reason to be anal-retentive about Gran Colombia but ignoring the fact that all Civs are named afted their historically recognized name, not the one they gave themselves (hence Byzantines and Greeks instead of romans and hellenes)

That is all i'm going to further say on the matter. If you want to discuss, find a mirror

 

[Gedemon]

That isn't the question at all. No DLL access does not mean no modding; this is a false dichotomy. Aside from the DLL Civ 6 is extremely mod friendly.

I agree, it is mod friendly...

The devs have gone above and beyond in comparison to V.

... and I see they've put a lot of work into it, maybe more than they did for V, but I'm unsure they've done it the right way, even with the DLL put aside.

Comparing civ5 and civ6 without the DLL, it's a lot harder to mod civ6 for a new modder, handling the art assets between mods is incredibly tedious, and it lacks a lot of methods that were available in civ5 Lua for AI control (diplomacy, units, ...)

And we had a full modding documentation on civ5 release, nothing for civ6.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Civilization V have a much better relationship between pops and buildings and you actually have to build up a civilization rather than destroying Everything to get out as many campuses as possible. However Civilization VI have alot more variety and much better civilization designs.

 

[Xefjord]

That's horrendous news : ( Can't believe Firaxis would pull their support for mods like this.
After 2.000 hours, I was actually thinking of letting Civ go and not buying any of its content anymore. Thanks to some great mods (mainly P0khiel, Gedemon, Sukritact) I've been delving deep into the game again and will immediately buy the Frontier Pass, hoping it will be good and made better by mods.

To my knowledge while Gedemon is considering a (well earned for their hard work) break from Civ 6 modding, I don't think @sukritact or p0kiehl are going to be taking a break? So there should still be more too look forward to. The community isn't completely disbanding

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

That isn't the question at all. No DLL access does not mean no modding; this is a false dichotomy. Aside from the DLL Civ 6 is extremely mod friendly. The devs have gone above and beyond in comparison to V.

Modders say it does mean.
this question is essential to how devs should prioritize modding in their development process and how their decision might affect sales.
Can anyone remember if they add a question about modding to their summer survey?