Civilizations Reborn

[1SDANi]

Your new update fixed Babylon's 3rd UHV, but I have some more feedback... I don't think that it is possible for Babylon to get their tech goal (calendar) anymore. Even when I didn't stall city growth for a worker and beelined straight toward calendar, I was still a turn off when I lost it to Norte Chico. Speaking of Norte Chico, could you give us a hint on how it is done? I feel like I've tried everything! Republic, despotism, emphasizing , emphasizing ... I just can't seem to get it on Monarch/Normal.

Just pushed an update tweaking the Norte Chico Tech Preferences to fix this issue. I promise I actually playtested the new Egyptian UHV.

 

[Hickman888]

Norte Chico UHV done: not too bad, tech order goes Mining > Sailing > rush Calendar > rush Writing > Pottery. Micromanagement of pops isn't necessary actually, just need to adhere to a strict build order and build the improvements in the correct order. Fun little puzzle.

Okay, nice! I just did that on Regent, but was not able to do it on Monarch.

Also I'd love to see more of these small puzzle civs! I like civs that require critical thinking such as Tibet, Burma, Norte Chico, etc.

I agree! Haven't tried Tibet or Burma yet, but I did enjoy playing through Polynesia. They're a nice change of pace from managing the huge empires of the late game.

Just pushed an update tweaking the Norte Chico Tech Preferences to fix this issue. I promise I actually playtested the new Egyptian UHV.

Okay awesome, looking forward to it!

 

[youzhou]

This may be a dumb question, but is there any way to use the large map with this mod?

yes

That's a bug that happens when you download the mod from GitHub. Open the scenario file in Notepad++ and go to Edit > End of Line Conversion > Windows and save the file, it should fix the scenario.

Thank you very much

They have different colours for the City Population Number and Unit Flags.

View attachment 550838

View attachment 550839

600 AD is working on my end, I'll see what I can do nonetheless.

Another Yemen related update: Reduced strength of Turkic conquerors against Oman

That's true, but it's the same color on the plot, and of course it's a minor problem

 

[1SDANi]

That's true, but it's the same color on the plot, and of course it's a minor problem

I chose the colour to represent the red and black on the modern Yemeni flag. If you'd like to suggest another colour that you believe would properly represent them, please go ahead and do so.

 

[Steb]

I tried some of the Ancient Era new civs. Some thoughts:

• Norte Chico is a nice addition! No doubt challenging to design since we don't know much about it. It's a fun little puzzle, though not especially difficult (on Regent/Normal).
  • Founding the capital on the forest tile is so much better than the starting plot, since you get access to 2 corn farms and and extra mine, but both times I tried it, I collapsed because it is outside the single-tile core area. I suppose that's by design.
  • I found the culture goal trivial, due in part to the UU worker's ability (which overlaps a bit with Teotihuacan's artisan, but that's not a big deal). Is there a reason they start with a worker instead of a militia like the other 3000 BC civs? I think it'd be more interesting to have to decide when to build a worker.
  • Also, is their collapse scripted?
• I have no idea how to conquer Egypt as Nubia and build the Pyramids, but an extra ancient civilization in the Nile area is nice. I haven't tried playing beyond the Ancient Era, however. I'd also be curious to interact with them as the Egyptians. I think Nubia would be a good addition to the main mod, when the new map is done.
• I also enjoyed the Celts. It's fun to play in central/northern Europe before it's filled with multiple civilizations. One consequence of sharing their area with many later civs is that their land is incredibly rich.
  • The first goal (raze two capitals) is fun and really thematic. I attacked the obvious targets (Rome and Athens), but I like that there may be other possibilities and that the goal has to time limit.
  • The second goal requires fast expansion, which makes sense. It might be interesting to include Galatia (in Anatolia), which interestingly was also colonized by the Celts.
  • The last goal is a bit weird, though: the dates where you need to have the most culture are quite close together, and besides it doesn't feel particularly thematic. Maybe it would be interesting to switch the focus to surviving into the Middle Ages and colonizing Britany, Ireland and Scotland. These areas should be excluded from the French and English flip areas if they aren't already.

 

[1SDANi]

I tried some of the Ancient Era new civs. Some thoughts:

• Norte Chico is a nice addition! No doubt challenging to design since we don't know much about it. It's a fun little puzzle, though not especially difficult (on Regent/Normal).
  • Founding the capital on the forest tile is so much better than the starting plot, since you get access to 2 corn farms and and extra mine, but both times I tried it, I collapsed because it is outside the single-tile core area. I suppose that's by design.
  • I found the culture goal trivial, due in part to the UU worker's ability (which overlaps a bit with Teotihuacan's artisan, but that's not a big deal). Is there a reason they start with a worker instead of a militia like the other 3000 BC civs? I think it'd be more interesting to have to decide when to build a worker.
  • Also, is their collapse scripted?
• I have no idea how to conquer Egypt as Nubia and build the Pyramids, but an extra ancient civilization in the Nile area is nice. I haven't tried playing beyond the Ancient Era, however. I'd also be curious to interact with them as the Egyptians. I think Nubia would be a good addition to the main mod, when the new map is done.
• I also enjoyed the Celts. It's fun to play in central/northern Europe before it's filled with multiple civilizations. One consequence of sharing their area with many later civs is that their land is incredibly rich.
  • The first goal (raze two capitals) is fun and really thematic. I attacked the obvious targets (Rome and Athens), but I like that there may be other possibilities and that the goal has to time limit.
  • The second goal requires fast expansion, which makes sense. It might be interesting to include Galatia (in Anatolia), which interestingly was also colonized by the Celts.
  • The last goal is a bit weird, though: the dates where you need to have the most culture are quite close together, and besides it doesn't feel particularly thematic. Maybe it would be interesting to switch the focus to surviving into the Middle Ages and colonizing Britany, Ireland and Scotland. These areas should be excluded from the French and English flip areas if they aren't already.

I couldn't figure out how to beat their UHV without the Starting Worker. I may increase the culture requirement.
Their collapse is not scripted. tFallDate just happens to work very well.

My original goal with the Celts was to have a second UHV that was switched to if their capital was in Ireland or Scotland. I ended up scrapping it but by that time I was already done with the original UHV. The last goal is a sort of inversion of our distinct lack of first hand knowledge of their people, with our only written sources being propaganda from their enemies. The goal is thus designed to reflect 3 important dates in the fall of the Celts: the end of the Gallic invasion of Greece, the Roman Invasion of Gaul, and Boudica's Uprising. If I were to represent Scotland in the future, I believe it'd be better as a full Scottish Civ. Ireland meanwhile I'm still on the fence over how to represent them.

Thank you so very much for the feedback.

 

[Hickman888]

I'll throw in my feedback on the civilizations I've played too.

First, the Norte Chico. Like Steb said, I feel like the first culture goal is attained without even going for it. Maybe the culture goal can be pushed to an earlier date that requires a bit more action on the part of the player, or maybe the culture goal can be increased but put at a later date? Also, for their religious goal, I don't know if this is a bug that is also in vanilla DoC or what, but this treasury goal seems bugged for turn 14.

Spoiler 2nd Religious Goal :

Next, Babylon. I really like the new 3rd UHV goal , but I noticed it is not necessary to capture Jerusalem to complete it. You only have to capture the Phoenician city "Sur", as Jerusalem is a minor city. Perhaps their goal can be changed to "control 2 cities in the Levant"?

Spoiler Babylonian Historical Victory :

And lastly, I just played a game as Celtia. I missed out on my culture goal, but I was able to come through on the religious goal...

Spoiler Celtic Religious Victory :

I accidentally walked into this victory, as I was settling many cities and building the pagan temple in all of them. I think the Celts should have a different pagan victory from the later European civilizations, so that both civilizations have a challenging but achievable pagan goal.

In the above image, you can also see some sort of disconnect between the year, and the turn number for the historical victory (marathon speed).

For the gameplay itself, I noticed that the Celts start with 10 in all cities, even on Marathon speed, so they are missing out on that free border pop on the slower speeds. Even still, I think this ability is slightly underwhelming... Both the Celtic territorial and cultural goals guide the player to spam cities in their historical territory, as more cities = more duns/temples = more . But so many cities in a (relatively) small area means that they are all in each others workable radius, which means that the free Celtic pop gets diluted pretty quickly. So here are my two ideas for a new Celtic unique power...

1. The Player gets 6 /turn in each city for keeping their civics as is (Chiefdom, Slavery, Animism, Authority, Reciprocity, Sovereignty). If one civic is changed, they lose the entire bonus. This is my favorite, because it promotes city spam, and keeps the player from wandering into Republic or Deification, which is historically inaccurate. (I think!)
2. The player gets 1 /turn for each forest in a cities radius. I also like this, as it keeps the player from chopping down every forest in Europe.

Or a Celtic wonder could be added that adds one of the above abilities, while the other is the official Celtic ability.

Do note though, that I wasn't able to achieve the Celtic goal in my one game I played (Greece and China were ahead of me in 200 BC), so if you feel like my ideas were to make things way too easy for the Celtic player, feel free to shoot them down.

 

[1SDANi]

I'll throw in my feedback on the civilizations I've played too.

First, the Norte Chico. Like Steb said, I feel like the first culture goal is attained without even going for it. Maybe the culture goal can be pushed to an earlier date that requires a bit more action on the part of the player, or maybe the culture goal can be increased but put at a later date? Also, for their religious goal, I don't know if this is a bug that is also in vanilla DoC or what, but this treasury goal seems bugged for turn 14.

Spoiler 2nd Religious Goal :

View attachment 551134

Next, Babylon. I really like the new 3rd UHV goal , but I noticed it is not necessary to capture Jerusalem to complete it. You only have to capture the Phoenician city "Sur", as Jerusalem is a minor city. Perhaps their goal can be changed to "control 2 cities in the Levant"?

Spoiler Babylonian Historical Victory :

View attachment 551135

And lastly, I just played a game as Celtia. I missed out on my culture goal, but I was able to come through on the religious goal...

Spoiler Celtic Religious Victory :

View attachment 551136

I accidentally walked into this victory, as I was settling many cities and building the pagan temple in all of them. I think the Celts should have a different pagan victory from the later European civilizations, so that both civilizations have a challenging but achievable pagan goal.

In the above image, you can also see some sort of disconnect between the year, and the turn number for the historical victory (marathon speed).

For the gameplay itself, I noticed that the Celts start with 10 in all cities, even on Marathon speed, so they are missing out on that free border pop on the slower speeds. Even still, I think this ability is slightly underwhelming... Both the Celtic territorial and cultural goals guide the player to spam cities in their historical territory, as more cities = more duns/temples = more . But so many cities in a (relatively) small area means that they are all in each others workable radius, which means that the free Celtic pop gets diluted pretty quickly. So here are my two ideas for a new Celtic unique power...

1. The Player gets 6 /turn in each city for keeping their civics as is (Chiefdom, Slavery, Animism, Authority, Reciprocity, Sovereignty). If one civic is changed, they lose the entire bonus. This is my favorite, because it promotes city spam, and keeps the player from wandering into Republic or Deification, which is historically inaccurate. (I think!)
2. The player gets 1 /turn for each forest in a cities radius. I also like this, as it keeps the player from chopping down every forest in Europe.

Or a Celtic wonder could be added that adds one of the above abilities, while the other is the official Celtic ability.

Do note though, that I wasn't able to achieve the Celtic goal in my one game I played (Greece and China were ahead of me in 200 BC), so if you feel like my ideas were to make things way too easy for the Celtic player, feel free to shoot them down.

Okay, I'm definitely gonna tweak the Norte Chico Culture UHV

Good catch on the Babylonian UHV. Forgot that Independents weren't counted. Gonna change it to using the function that checks if you control every tile of the Levant, like the Mamluk UHV.

Oof. Forgot that game speeds exist. I'll get the Celtic UP up to snuff. Honestly, as noted before, the Celts have such an amazing Core territory that I really didn't want to give them too powerful of a UP. Though I really like that first UP. Considering how much I used Monarchy in my playtesting of the Celts to offset how insanely huge Hallstat's pop can get, I definitely would like to do something along those lines in a future update, balance permitting.

Also, I don't know how I missed it, but after a reread, I'd like to reply to Steb's Galatia suggestion. I didn't include it in the UHV as I was unsure of how difficult the UHV would be and didn't want to make it too hard. However, I did include it in their Historical Territory.
(note to self, haphazardly add Galatia into the Celtic UHV and hope I don't break anything or make it unbeatable)

 

[Krieger-FS]

Some feedbacks and comments:

North Chico:

• I agree that the culture goal is somewhat easy right now and can be increased a little bit if we mantain the start with the UU. I do think we should try see how things go if the player needs to build a worker, because just doing so will help make the game harder and the culture goal less trivial. Nonetheless, I feel that this shouldn't be the hardest of the three UHVs.
• When I first proposed North Chico as a civ for this mod, I realized back then that its UU ability would overlap a bit with Teotihuacan's artisan, but I didn't gave much thought about it. Truth be told, it wasn't easy to come with a UU for this civ, given that we do not know much about it given the lack of extensive research and written accounts (none of the Andean civilization had devolped a formal writing system). The unit's ability was thought considering that the Ayllu was a form of social organization related to the division of labor common to all later Andean civilizations, so it make sense that it gives culture output and helps with the thematic appropriate culture goal. Being said that, I don't think the UU or its special ability is set in stone and we can change it if we want.

Celts:

• I also agree that Celtic UP and last UHV could have some improvement. About the UP, I understand that you tried to give them a less powerful UP given that their core/historical areas are resource-rich, but still feels underwhelming. My suggestion here goes in the same way of Hickman888's second one: player get culture for each forest tile worked but, to make the Celts less powerful, remove some resources (particularly the food related, so we limit city growth) in Central Europe, spawning them later to medieval/modern civs. On the plus side, these changes would be also historically accurate, given that Westen/Central Europe was largely covered with forests by this time, Celtic cities weren't that big and large-scale agriculture only devoloped later, going along with the significant deforestation during medieval times.
• I don't know how you guys played, but the culture UHV was more military-oriented to me than culturally, given that I felt compelled to collapse rival civs to ensure victory. I still hopes that 1SDAN reconsiders my initial suggestion (actually first proposed long ago in this thread) to the third UHV: four Christian monasteries in four different landmasses. A nice and different UHV that also represents the Celtic cultural legacy and their existence in the British Isles during early middle ages.
• I agree completely with Steb about adding Galatia to historical areas/UHV.

 

[1SDANi]

Small Update

Babylon's Conquest UHV requires all tiles in the Levant to be controlled
The Celtic UP scales with game speed

 

[Hydrok9]

yes

Thank you very much

That's true, but it's the same color on the plot, and of course it's a minor problem

Yes that's dumb? Yes you can use the big map? Won't I have to map all the new civs myself if i want to do that?

 

[1SDANi]

Yes that's dumb? Yes you can use the big map? Won't I have to map all the new civs myself if i want to do that?

This mod currently does not implement the big map as per Leoreth's request. In summary, Leoreth felt it best- and I feel inclined to agree- that, should there be work done on the big map, that it should be done on the DoC big map, so as not to splinter productivity.

 

[youzhou]

Leader and team Numbers are a bit of a problem，Saladin is now the leader of Egypt

 

[need my speed]

I see no problem.

 

[1SDANi]

View attachment 551421 View attachment 551420 Leader and team Numbers are a bit of a problem，Saladin is now the leader of Egypt

ARGH! I thought I double checked that after finding it in my local dev branch!

New update to fix that and a small bug I found in the Celtic collapse code

 

[mysterious_stalker]

I see no problem.

It arguably makes more sense for Saladin to lead a respawned Egypt.

 

[youzhou]

ARGH! I thought I double checked that after finding it in my local dev branch!

New update to fix that and a small bug I found in the Celtic collapse code

What other new civilizations do you plan to include?

 

[1SDANi]

What other new civilizations do you plan to include?

I currently have 2 almost ready to go, I just need to test them and make any necessary tweaks to ensure their UHV is possible, fix a crash, get one of the UUs to not crash when selected for training, and implement their DoM.

I've been working on and off between DCR and a mod for Halo: Combat Evolved, so it's been relatively slow going, so I can't give any official nor semi-official time frames.

 

[Darnokthemage]

Hmm, so, uh, regarding the big map, how and where can i download one that works with the submod?

 

[merijn_v1]

You can't.