Conservative base and Palin ?

[Bill3000]

That's the theory, anyways. Yet American is a centrist nation. The Democrats are a centrist party. Why would another centrist party not work?

Other than the fact that the idea that a nation is "centrist" is a truism, because the way a first-past the post system works - two candidates of the same type harm each other such that either the two parties much merge or one must fail, as voters gravitate to the two stronger parties out of three. A third party can only enter the arena if it can exploit the mistakes of a pre-existing major party, ultimately at that party's expense.

 

[Lay_Lay]

Don't rule out the following possibility. A third party emerges, which ultimately takes roughly equal numbers of voters away from what would have gone to the other two parties. End result being, that the third party did not affect the outcome of the loser- the loser still lost. However, the winner... well, count the votes.

 

[Cutlass]

Other than the fact that the idea that a nation is "centrist" is a truism, because the way a first-past the post system works - two candidates of the same type harm each other such that either the two parties much merge or one must fail, as voters gravitate to the two stronger parties out of three. A third party can only enter the arena if it can exploit the mistakes of a pre-existing major party, ultimately at that party's expense.

But that's the whole situation now. The Republicans have gone ultra extremist, squeezing out anyone who isn't an extremist and marginalizing the party. A center-right conservative party could, potentially, squeeze the Republican party out of existence. Or at least cause the Republicans to return to center-right policies. As long as the GOPers are determined to go further and further from the American people, there's a window of opportunity.

Remember how the discussion got started, with the hypothetical of Palin leading a party that's to the right of the Republican's currently. Well if you go to the right of the GOP currently, now at the expense of godwinning, that truly is a fascist party. There is no room to the right of the GOP that can in any way, shape, or form, be called conservative.

So the only place for a conservative party in the US is to the left of the GOP, and that's not gonna include a splinter group lead by Palin.

 

[Ulyaoth]

Can someone explain to me how the Republicans are extremely far right?

 

[JollyRoger]

The Republicans aren't right at all.

 

[Cutlass]

Can someone explain to me how the Republicans are extremely far right?

How are they not? They try to pass laws based on extremist religious views. They've pursued economic polices based on extreme right wing views. Their foreign policy is based on reactionary neo-conservatism. They only appoint judges that are utterly opposed to the US Constitution.

Dude, it's not subtle.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Can someone explain to me how the Republicans are extremely far right?

It's not all Republicans. In fact, the party itself has been getting more and more left to try to get as many voters aa it possibly could, as the Democrats do the same thing from the opposite direction. Now, it is difficult to even tell them apart on most issues.

It is the fringe elements that are far right. I bet a lot of Republicans are actually dismayed when they watch Fox News or failed to balance the budget during the GWB years.

 

[Ulyaoth]

They only appoint judges that are utterly opposed to the US Constitution.

And that's any different from every other politician in the history of the country?

 

[Bill3000]

It's not all Republicans. In fact, the party itself has been getting more and more left to try to get as many voters aa it possibly could, as the Democrats do the same thing from the opposite direction.

It is the fringe elements that are far right. I bet a lot of Republicans are actually dismayed when then watch Fox News.

FOX NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cutlass]

And that's any different from every other politician in the history of the country?

Sensible people look for judges that care about the law.

 

[Ulyaoth]

Well it never happens.

 

[Cutlass]

Well it never happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonia_Sotomayor

 

[Ulyaoth]

Way to be a kissass.

 

[Mowque]

edit- troll post deleted after review.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Can someone explain to me how the Republicans are extremely far right?

You just look at the issues and determine what positions are left-leaning and right-leaning. The Republicans are associated with the latter. If you do the same for recent American political history, you'll see that the Republicans of the 21st Century lean further to the right than their predecessors (Dwight Eisenhower would be in Kucinich territory). If you then look at the opinions of the American people (determined through issue polling), you'll see that the Republicans' platform is way, way to the right of the median American, far more so than the Democrats' platform (which, I'd argue, is also to the right of the median American).

Honestly, what's an issue where the Republicans could be more right-wing?

Cleo

 

[Phlegmak]

The Republicans aren't right at all.

There should be some award for witty posts, because that would win one.

 

[Earthling]

The bald eagle award for reading comprehension?

Also, given that I don't really have much else to say to Ulyaoth (I'd agree the Republicans are strongly to the right in general) I have to say the following really isn't that true:

In fact, the party itself has been getting more and more left to try to get as many voters aa it possibly could, as the Democrats do the same thing from the opposite direction. Now, it is difficult to even tell them apart on most issues.

The assertion that the Republicans and Democrats can't be told apart is really rather ignorant at face value, as it is very typical of people who don't even bother to stay informed. If not that, it's often just a segue into promotion of some minority viewpoint that isn't represented well by either of the two parties, and I deplore this tactic, whether it's by communists, libertarians, theocrats, or whomever. On most issues, and even the philosophical principles behind them, the Republicans and Democrats can be told apart very, very well, and I'd say this holds true for vast portions of the electorate they each aim to represent as well.

 

[JollyRoger]

On most issues, and even the philosophical principles behind them, the Republicans and Democrats can be told apart very, very well, and I'd say this holds true for vast portions of the electorate they each aim to represent as well.

On many issues they don't represent the electorate, but the corporate donor base.

 

[Ulyaoth]

The assertion that the Republicans and Democrats can't be told apart is really rather ignorant at face value, as it is very typical of people who don't even bother to stay informed. If not that, it's often just a segue into promotion of some minority viewpoint that isn't represented well by either of the two parties, and I deplore this tactic, whether it's by communists, libertarians, theocrats, or whomever. On most issues, and even the philosophical principles behind them, the Republicans and Democrats can be told apart very, very well, and I'd say this holds true for vast portions of the electorate they each aim to represent as well.

Blame the Europeans. I see them constantly insisting that both our parties are practically the same thing and both in reality far right compared to their standards.

You just look at the issues and determine what positions are left-leaning and right-leaning. The Republicans are associated with the latter. If you do the same for recent American political history, you'll see that the Republicans of the 21st Century lean further to the right than their predecessors (Dwight Eisenhower would be in Kucinich territory). If you then look at the opinions of the American people (determined through issue polling), you'll see that the Republicans' platform is way, way to the right of the median American, far more so than the Democrats' platform (which, I'd argue, is also to the right of the median American).

Honestly, what's an issue where the Republicans could be more right-wing?

Cleo

I guess it just depends on what you determine right or left wing issues. I don't see big government like Bush and the republicans having been giving the past 8 years to be a 'right' or 'conservative' thing.

 

[Bill3000]

The assertion that the Republicans and Democrats can't be told apart is really rather ignorant at face value, as it is very typical of people who don't even bother to stay informed. If not that, it's often just a segue into promotion of some minority viewpoint that isn't represented well by either of the two parties, and I deplore this tactic, whether it's by communists, libertarians, theocrats, or whomever. On most issues, and even the philosophical principles behind them, the Republicans and Democrats can be told apart very, very well, and I'd say this holds true for vast portions of the electorate they each aim to represent as well.

At the end of the day, outside of both being big tend parties, they're both liberal, (in the global sense) capitalist, free-trade, pro-israel, et cetera big tent parties. The fact that "they can't be told apart" is due to the nature of the US political system which necessitates parties to remain within the nation's political center in order to survive. Elections are primarily about competence, not about any genuine politically ideological battle. Major parties within Europe are doing this lately too as both parties shift economically rightward and authoritarian.

I guess it just depends on what you determine right or left wing issues. I don't see big government like Bush and the republicans having been giving the past 8 years to be a 'right' or 'conservative' thing.

Kinda forgot their entire security thing, which outside of uniting the party, is both traditionally conservative (security issues) and "big government". (For that matter, the size of a government has nothing to do with "conservativism" - it's entirely possible to be conservative without being fiscally right-wing at all.)