Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[The Turk]

That looks good Leoreth!
Happy to see how far this mod has come!

Also I had an idea earlier today while walking home, (yes I think of RFC all day every day ), why not remove Taoism and instead have Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Yes you heard me, rename Buddhism to Theravada Buddhism (Buddhism which spread to India, Sri Lanka and Khmer, south east asia) and change Taoism a folk religion to Mahayana Buddhism, which spread to China, Korea, Mongolia (sorta) and Japan. Therefore you could have two competing schools of Buddhism, how cool would that be !

Also how are you able to break the hardcoded religion limit? Has someone come up with a way to do it?

 

[fireclaw722]

That looks good Leoreth!
Happy to see how far this mod has come!

Also I had an idea earlier today while walking home, (yes I think of RFC all day every day ), why not remove Taoism and instead have Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Yes you heard me, rename Buddhism to Theravada Buddhism (Buddhism which spread to India, Sri Lanka and Khmer, south east asia) and change Taoism a folk religion to Mahayana Buddhism, which spread to China, Korea, Mongolia (sorta) and Japan. Therefore you could have two competing schools of Buddhism, how cool would that be !

Also how are you able to break the hardcoded religion limit? Has someone come up with a way to do it?

The Khmer UHV would need to be changed...

 

[Brew]

I think my question/concern got lost in the shuffle yesterday, so here it is again:

Spoiler :

"Hey Leoreth, just tried out the newest version (my first civ game in a few months) and it is of course awesome! Just wondering though, did you add the tech scaling feature from Edead into marathon speed? Things just still seem too advanced in later Europe. I'm England and its only 1800 but me and Germany are both about to have infantry and I'm pretty sure the turns are about to slow down significantly. Plus Germany already built St. Basil's Cathedral.

Rome is much cooler now, but despite the upgrades its still really hard to get the techs you need without trading (with which I had absolutely no cooperation from the AI civs). I was expanding to full size at the historical rate though, which may be too fast for Rome's economy.

Thanks for all your hard work though!!"

p.s. I think a Safavid and Mughal respawn would enhance the game tremendously. I do have the slight concern though that the Mughals would expand into southern India too quickly and make it impossible for England or Portugal to gain a foothold there without warring with the Mughals.

 

[The Turk]

The Khmer UHV would need to be changed...

So? Its not that hard to change at all

p.s. I think a Safavid and Mughal respawn would enhance the game tremendously. I do have the slight concern though that the Mughals would expand into southern India too quickly and make it impossible for England or Portugal to gain a foothold there without warring with the Mughals.

I agree with you about the Mughals/Delhi Sultanate though, the best course of action would be to place a (or two) strong HINDU city-state in the south of India, to represent the Hindu principalities in the South of the country which were hard to subjugate. But good thinking

 

[Leoreth]

I think my question/concern got lost in the shuffle yesterday, so here it is again:

Spoiler :

"Hey Leoreth, just tried out the newest version (my first civ game in a few months) and it is of course awesome! Just wondering though, did you add the tech scaling feature from Edead into marathon speed? Things just still seem too advanced in later Europe. I'm England and its only 1800 but me and Germany are both about to have infantry and I'm pretty sure the turns are about to slow down significantly. Plus Germany already built St. Basil's Cathedral.

Rome is much cooler now, but despite the upgrades its still really hard to get the techs you need without trading (with which I had absolutely no cooperation from the AI civs). I was expanding to full size at the historical rate though, which may be too fast for Rome's economy.

Thanks for all your hard work though!!"

p.s. I think a Safavid and Mughal respawn would enhance the game tremendously. I do have the slight concern though that the Mughals would expand into southern India too quickly and make it impossible for England or Portugal to gain a foothold there without warring with the Mughals.

Oh, sorry, must have overlooked it. DoC contains all features of RFCM, so if edead has included it, it's here as well. Do you think here are problems with marathon speed that are not present in RFCM?

I agree with you about the Mughals/Delhi Sultanate though, the best course of action would be to place a (or two) strong HINDU city-state in the south of India, to represent the Hindu principalities in the South of the country which were hard to subjugate. But good thinking

That wouldn't solve anything though, because we actually want the south to be free for the Euros to colonize.

 

[J. pride]

What about a conquerers event for the Europeans in India; maybe on a smaller scale.? Would that solve the problem

 

[Brew]

Thanks Leoreth!! Yeah I think it might be a little fast still, but not nearly as bad as I remember it. Besides I still haven't played past 1800 - I'm starting a new game because France collapsed right after the conqueror event and it just wasn't as fun playing through the imperial era without France to squabble with.

 

[The Turk]

That wouldn't solve anything though, because we actually want the south to be free for the Euros to colonize.

What about a conquerers event for the Europeans in India; maybe on a smaller scale.? Would that solve the problem

Problem solved
But just have this conquerers event ONLY for AI, as it should be easy for the human player to take a few measly cities in Southern India. Also having the Europeans settle Southern India is like having the Europeans settle the Middle East or Mexico in this game

 

[jammerculture]

Please, please, please no respawns as specific dynasties!

Persia definitely needs a possible respawn but not as any specific dynasty, just Persia (or Iran which is what the Iranians have always called themselves). Same as India (Egypt?). Use dynamic naming to name the civs as certain dynasties if they use the proper group of civics/religions. A potential late game Persia that has embraced emancipation called the Saffavid empire would be just as bad as a Turkish Persia.

A buddhist rennaisance India that is running caste system and representation called the Mughal empire!!??!!

Also, is it possible to have dynamic naming of religions? For example, could zoroastrianism be renamed to Shia Islam 100 years after the Arab spawn? If so this would make a lot of people happy I suspect. (and maybe used as a bargaining chip.....)

also, Roman crash save attached. Note: this is from 1.7, have not been able to run a newer Rome game. I attached two saves from the same game. I beleive the first is from right before declaring war on Carthage and the second is right before taking the city. Hope this helps!

Also, on the reformation: I like the third option that you proposed Leoreth, and I also really like the idea someone brought up later that we need to let Protestanism spread a little before the choice is made. Maybe have it so that any civs with open borders with the civ that first researches paper would get Prot added to a bunch of their cities right away? Or an option for the founding civ to spend gold to spread the new religion so that it is wildly spread early before the player is given the choice to join the counter reformation. Basically something to maximize the carnage lol

 

[J. pride]

Please, please, please no respawns as specific dynasties!

The names of civilizations are renamable so modern day Iran would not be called Safavids so I think there is not problem with dynamic names?
@ Leoreth: Is it possible to change name of civs by time period.

Also i mentioned this in Synthesis and i would like to mention it here. Is it possible to a Egypt respawn. Im just going to throw some ideas just to get the ball rolling; suggestions welcome

Egyptian Respawn
Name: Fattimids/Ayyubids/Malmuk Sultanate/Arab Republic of Egypt

Leaderheads: Al-Muizz (import from Soi), Saladin, Muhammad Ali Pasha Suggestions anyone?

UU: ?? (Perhaps the Malmuks from SOI) or Berber Calvary Any Suggestions?

UB: ??

UHV: -Control all of North Africa, Palestine, Syria and Hejaz: By 1000 ad
- Make Cairo the largest and most cultured city in 1200 ad
- Any Suggestions (Perhaps something to do with defending/defeating europe or the Ottomans)

Preferred Civic: ??

Start: 900 AD

Flip Area: Egypt and Eastern Libya; so most probably it will include Cairo, Alexandria and Benghazi


Additional Info:
Name Changes:
Fatimids from 900 to 1100 ad
Ayyubid: from 1100 to 1250
Malmuk: from 1250 to 1500
Vassals of Ottomans:Khedivate of Egypt
Vassals of Europeans (British): Kingdom of Egypt
Modern day Egypt: Arab Republic of Egypt.

Balancing Information:
-Stability hit during 1500 to 1900.
-Should not be too strong that the Ottomans cannot conquer them.
- If weak they should be likely to become Ottoman Vassal before 1800 or English vassals after 1800
- If dead they should have a rebirth in 1850 (independence from Ottomans) and maybe 1940 (Independence from British)

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks Leoreth!! Yeah I think it might be a little fast still, but not nearly as bad as I remember it. Besides I still haven't played past 1800 - I'm starting a new game because France collapsed right after the conqueror event and it just wasn't as fun playing through the imperial era without France to squabble with.

Okay. Maybe it's just Germany's research speed being overpowered.

Please, please, please no respawns as specific dynasties!

Persia definitely needs a possible respawn but not as any specific dynasty, just Persia (or Iran which is what the Iranians have always called themselves). Same as India (Egypt?). Use dynamic naming to name the civs as certain dynasties if they use the proper group of civics/religions. A potential late game Persia that has embraced emancipation called the Saffavid empire would be just as bad as a Turkish Persia.

A buddhist rennaisance India that is running caste system and representation called the Mughal empire!!??!!

Of course, that's what I planned. I'm just saying "Safavid Persia" to convey that the rise of the Safavids would be a good date to pinpoint their respawn.

Also, is it possible to have dynamic naming of religions? For example, could zoroastrianism be renamed to Shia Islam 100 years after the Arab spawn? If so this would make a lot of people happy I suspect. (and maybe used as a bargaining chip.....)

That won't work out I fear (rename may be possible, but not changing the graphics and the spread figures associated with it).

also, Roman crash save attached. Note: this is from 1.7, have not been able to run a newer Rome game. I attached two saves from the same game. I beleive the first is from right before declaring war on Carthage and the second is right before taking the city. Hope this helps!

Hoping this too! Will look at it this evening, thanks

Also, on the reformation: I like the third option that you proposed Leoreth, and I also really like the idea someone brought up later that we need to let Protestanism spread a little before the choice is made. Maybe have it so that any civs with open borders with the civ that first researches paper would get Prot added to a bunch of their cities right away? Or an option for the founding civ to spend gold to spread the new religion so that it is wildly spread early before the player is given the choice to join the counter reformation. Basically something to maximize the carnage lol

It would be nice for the Reformation to spread a few turns similar to the plague (civ_king will like this comparison ) and only THEN the decision will have to be made. You would have to base your decision more around the fact how much Protestantism has actually reached your cities.

The names of civilizations are renamable so modern day Iran would not be called Safavids so I think there is not problem with dynamic names?
@ Leoreth: Is it possible to change name of civs by time period.

Currently not, although I'm considering to make the rename system a little more sophisticated to account better for different eras and religions etc. Please don't jump at that with suggestions because it won't be done soon, I'm deep into fixing/improving the dynamic GP names currently.

 

[Visard]

What about a conquerers event for the Europeans in India; maybe on a smaller scale.? Would that solve the problem

I think that Conqueror effect could work well in India and South East Aasia. Suggestion:

When first European civilization which has astronomy meets Khmer and/or India would get galleon with a settler, pikeman and missionary. This could only work for AI and only trigger in certain time period like between 1500-1850.

Dividing Buddhism would also be cool. But I have never understood Khmers goal to spread Buddhism since it was mostly Hinduist kingdom. It would make much more sense to have Siamese civilization with this goal since they were actually Buddhist and their kingdom lasted much longer.

 

[Lord Ainsbirth]

Hello Leoreth,
I was able to finish a game with the Romans with no crash, but using the 'Synthesis Mod' from Lynkman266. As far as I know, it uses your mod too (it's his basis), so I don't know what could have hapened.
I would like to let you know my feedback, even it is not exactly your mod.
I think the game was very easy. I played Monarch difficult in Epic speed, and I didn't have problems to achieve the UHVs.
The first one was quite simple for me: the new unique power creates 2 legionaries and a catapult, and this is a very strong army against all ancient civs (maybe the only exception would be Persia). Also, I like to 'take care' of my units, I usually don't lose troops in attacks, so I could attack with 8 legionaries and 2-3 catapults... which is a lot (4 legionaries from spawn, and 2 for every war declaration).
My suggestion is to return the Roman power back to the ' power of the Roman Road'. I really liked it, it was quite strong, and also very representative of the Roman Empire.
I achieved the second UHV before the time limit: I think with the new speeds (Epic, Marathon) this UHV should be adjusted.
The third UHV (the barbarian invasion) it wasn't very challenge (as in regular RFC)
I hope this feedback will help you, even if it's not exactly from your mod!

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks for the feedback!

It seems the Roman UP is really still overpowered in human hands, might tone it down a little more.

I don't think Linkman has fixed the UP bug in Synthesis (at least he didn't mention he did), so I assume you were only lucky.

And as far as I know, the building goal is adjusted to different speeds to scale with the construction times.

 

[Lord Ainsbirth]

Hi Leoreth,
Maybe one way to solve this might be to keep the previous UP of the Romans to human players, and give some units to the IA when it declares war.
I'm not a programmer, and I don't know it would be able to give to some civs aid only when they're AI controlled.
Un saludo

 

[Leoreth]

Of course that'd be possible. I'll see what happens to the Roman UP in the future.

 

[dcode147]

I think it'd be really great if we could have a Roman UP where they would allowed to draft legionaries. It's incredibly historical given especially the levy nature of the Republican era Roman army. Since AIs wouldn't know how to best make use of this, I think the best way to achieve this is through:
-giving AI-Romans lots of bonuses in 75% of the games (such as production bonus, and triggered army spawns)
-a really simple system of triggers for controlling AI-controlled Roman army spawns

Trigger 1 (IF Romans are controlled by AI AND Constantinople if not controlled by human player): Constantinople joins Romans, Romans get small army (legionaries and catapult) spawned on Constantinople.

Trigger 2 (IF Romans are controlled by AI AND Jerusalem is not controlled by human player): Jerusalem joins Romans, Romans gets army (legionaries and catapult) spawned on Jersualem.


I really think such a simple trigger system wouldn't slow down the game all that much, and will go a long, long way to helping the Roman artificial intelligence out in crafting a historical empire. No longer will games be both so deterministic and so ahistorical.

 

[Sikandar]

Baibars should be the leader of an Egyptian respawn.

 

[jammerculture]

The problem with the roman road UP was that the AI was unable to use it to its advantage and therefore you never saw anything even close to a historic Roman empire. Furthermore, the two hurdles to even a human player creating a historical Rome were production needing to be used for buildings as well as the army, and the vast distances involved, which even with the roman road, made conquering the empire in a historic time frame very difficult. The new power is part of the reason that we are seeing larger and more historic AI Romes. I do agree that it is overpowered for the human, however, I would argue that instead of nerfing the power, a better resolve would be to change the UHV conditions to make them harder, as we have discussed previous. Expanding the conquest goals (mare nostram), creating a research goal and forcing the building goals to be spread throughout the empire are, imo, the way to balance the human controlled roman experience.

If the decision is to nerf the power, I would suggest that it is changed so that it can only be used once per continent, which would max you to 6 free legions and 3 free catapults. As it stands you can get 10 and five. As well, when changing the barbarian presence in Europe, it might have gone too far, as before it was non stop relentless assaults from all quarters, and now it is pretty tame. Creating a happy medium could help. In the end of the day, however, Rome's ability to destroy all contemporary civs is historical and helpful from a gaming perspective as it clears the map a bit for the modern civs.

 

[lumpthing]

If the research-all-classical-techs UHV is implemented along with the historical conquest goal, then Rome's UHVs will still be extremely challenging even with the current UP.