Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Leoreth]

Wow, that's a lot to respond to again. But I can't mod, so at least I can talk

Some python exceptions:

File "RiseAndFall", line 1555, in rebirth

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

File "Religions", line 277, in reformationPopup

  File "Religions", line 269, in showPopup

NameError: global name 'Popup' is not defined
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

Thanks for the exceptions. When did the first of them occur? And did you extract that little patch file I uploaded one page before? Edit: it's two pages

The second happened when the reformation triggered, am I right? I'll look it up as soon as I'm able to again.

I don't think so. Kiev has 2 pigs, 1 deer, 1 iron, 1 horse, 1 wheat, a river and some hills, while Petersburg has only 1 copper, 1 cow, (after your change), 1 tundra (after your change), no river and no hills. Actually, Petersburg would be a 'mediocre' city and it should be at least a 'good' one. Either move wheat or add fish (aluminum can stay, it's a late resource anyway). And maybe add a river, as Jusos2108 suggested.

Those 'server is too busy at the moment' errors are getting more and more annoying

The thing is, one also has to take into account which other cities might be affected. For example, I fear that some Baltic cities would suffer if resources from their BFC move north; Europe can be tricky that way. But that's best decided with the worldbuiler in front of me.

IIRC, Aztec Marathon did work back in 1.3, if that helps at all.

That's a start at least

YES!! I Know the feeling, kinda. My computer has been spazing out really bad lately.

Anyways... I was thinking that it would be nice to add the Golden Gate Bridge as a wonder then add it to America's UHV. Give a little extra something to that part of the challenge. I also think the Graceland wonder should be added to this list... is 5 too many wonders?

What do you constitue as a late wonder, Turk? The Statue of Liberty was dedicated 50 years before the Golden Gate Bridge was finished. Christo Redentor was built about the same time as the Bridge. I think it would constitute as an industrial Era wonder.

Oh, I personally have no problems with the Golden Gate Bridge as a wonder per se, but only that there's already a lot of American wonders in the modern era. And I'll have to look if there's an appropriate model for it

Maya, Marathon, 3000BC start - crash every time I open WB.

Same after I switch to Vikings, too. Must be more general with the Maya. It works if I load up a new game as, say, the egyptians.

Just started a new game as Ethiopia on Marathon. WB worked for the first few turns. Then around turn 556, right after the Arabs had been born and the Romans destroyed, WB crashed on opening again.

Is the crossed out part still valid? However, there really seems to be something wrong with the Maya and the WB. It seems as if the game wants to display something it can't find, and dies trying. How it annoys me not to be able to look this up

If you could mod the units to promote combined arms tactics instead of the current system where new units obsolete older ones, it would be the single greatest addition to this game since the creation of RFC. This has always been the weak point in civ4 for me.

A couple of other changes I would love to see implemented: building destruction. I think it would be cool to limit building destruction in captured cities. I think it should be tied to use of siege. If a group of swordsman storm a city alone, would they really stop to destroy the granary?

This could bring a new tactic to warfare in civ, where you would destroy buildings in cities with siege bombardment as a tactic instead of taking the city completely. If implemented this should also reduce population in the city under siege. Especially in RFC where capturing too many cities gives you bad stability, but razing them does the same; a mechanic such as this would give another option in warfare. It would also create more incentive to counterattack from the city.

Culture destruction. Many times in civ your plans get ruined by another civ's city placement and the resulting cultural contamination of your region. Currently you have few options, some of which can only be undertaken at prohibitive costs, i.e. breeding an artist to flip the city. I would like to see more options for cultural warfare. One option could be to use the raze command to weaken the cultural strength of a tile, increasing the likelihood of flipping. I think this is realistic as what is culture really. I have always seen cultural borders in civ as representing the areas where your language is spoken, your stories told etc etc. Well in reality when invaders begin pillaging the countryside, those people who speak your language, tell your stories etc flee to the city, leaving the area open to your settlement by those who speak your language.

As well, after playing SoI, my desire to have a game mechanic which allows barbarian "bandits' or "rebels" (I wont say the "T" word again) spawning inside your borders, whether its tied to stability or not, has been strengthened. This aspect of that other mod greatly increased realism and enjoyment.


Also, I, and I'm sure other members of this community, would be willing to donate to help you get your computer back up and running.

Wow, no, I don't want to blackmail you with delayed patches and updates, thanks

Your suggestions are interesting, but I fear they would get too far into micromanaging. Plus, new features are only half the fun if the AI can't handle them, which I fear it couldn't.

Other modders have implemented the "Stirrup" tech to represent heavier cavalry and used Horseback Riding to represent early cavalry/elephants. If you want to add a historical extra Ancient/Classical Age horse unit, that would be a way to do it.

Yeah, that makes both sense historically and from a gameplay point of view.

 

[KMRblue1027]

American UHV is already nearly impossible as Germany/England always get the Pentagon and the SoL. I never even have a chance to start the Pentagon.

 

[mechaerik]

I definitely remember seeing a golden gate bridge model on CFC.

 

[civ_king]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10964

Golden Gate Bridge, of the glorious city of San Francisco

California still needs lots more food

 

[Sandmonster1989]

Leoreth: What happened to your computer? You think it could be a virus of sorts? I just recovered from one (randomly out of nowhere it was fixed by my antivirus program). If it a virus I suggest the program AVG. It works really well and its free.

I agree about the pentagon thing--your right that I tend to lost the pentagon to Europe. I actually lost it to turkey before, too. IDK about that choice for the GG. It needs a little work. It really is colored kind of a rusty red-orange color. But the effect is ok. An instant 20% additional culture. It would be a lot better to have it require a river and coast than just a coast. The Bridge was built to span a bay, not so much water at one time...

Oh, I found some wonders:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7060423
Hope ur computer works well soon!

 

[dcode147]

Quick suggestion about wonders.

How easy would it be to make all wonders that require religions and civics to be twice as expensive. If the civ has the religion/civic, then the wonder production would be +100%. It doesn't have to be those exact numbers, but this way most wonders will still remain semi-geographical in location but wonders won't be as strictly deterministic as they are now.

In many games I play, I find that my production city ends up disproportionately producing a vast majority producing a large portion of the wonders of the world. It might make more sense to give a city a -10% wonder production per wonder in city. Hopefully this will spread out the wonders a bit and make human controlled cities like Rome or Budapest not have >8 wonders every game.

 

[rob85]

The second happened when the reformation triggered, am I right? I'll look it up as soon as I'm able to again.

Yes, there is something wrong with the reformation. I didn't get the popup and catholic cities didn't get protestatism as they did before. It was the same in 1.5, but worked fine in 1.3 and before. I haven't played 1.4.

The thing is, one also has to take into account which other cities might be affected. For example, I fear that some Baltic cities would suffer if resources from their BFC move north; Europe can be tricky that way. But that's best decided with the worldbuiler in front of me.

Riga and Reval would still have them, so what's the problem? There aren't any important cities affected by these changes.

 

[dcode147]

I know quests still do exist in RFC, but could there be some tweaks made to it so they could be more historical and more realistic and fun to achieve?
Some suggestions:
- First civ (except Mali and Ethiopia) to own a city in Sub-Saharan Africa –Can choose to enslave locals. Choosing to enslave locals produces 1 slave unit (worker) in capital every 4 turns for 12 turns (for 20 turns if have slavery civic), but also gives -2 relations with Mali and Ethiopia and -4 relations with civs with emancipation.
- First nonAmerindian civ to found a city in the Americas (will probably want to change some UHVs)– The city gets +100% from foreign trade routes and +200% from domestic trade routes for 20 turns (this is so mercantilism will work as mercantilism was the system used by most powers during initial phase of colonization). This represents something like the Spanish Main.
- First civ to circumnavigate (get rid of related UHVs): get +1 movement to all ships
- Conquer Jerusalem with Temple of Solomon: If Temple of Solomon is present, then you get a choice whether to raze Temple of Solomon or not. If you do, you get 200 + number of turns/5 amount of gold, but city is in disorder time is doubled and city has +3 unhappiness for 15 turns.
- First civ to possess land area >200% of core area (>300% for European civs and Amerindian civs, Carthage and Babylon): Get +20 stability boost for 15 turns (to simulate Pax Mongolia, Pax Britania etc..)
- First civ to control 3 holy cities: gets 1 missionary of state religion spawned at capital and 1 missionary of respective controlled holy city at those cities (so 4 free missionaries total).
- First civ to control territory in 4 of the following regions: Europe, North America, South Ameria, Africa, South and Southeast Asia, East Asia, Middle East and Central Asia and Siberia ; Gets +2 commerce in all cities outside of core area for 15 turns.
- First civ to have had land units have walked through borders of 4 of the following: 1 civ of East Asia, 1 civ of Middle East, 1 civ of Africa, 1 civ of Europe, and 1 civ of Americas: receive a great merchant in capital.
- First civ with city with walls with defense <100%: gets +2 culture to walls.
- First city with population >10: gets no unhappiness for 10 turns.
- First city with population >20: gets no unhappiness for 10 turns.
- First civ to have spent over 100gp on mercenary maintenance: only pays 1/2 mercenary hire cost and maintenance cost for next 20 turns.
- Civ that spent 1st and 2nd most espionage points from 1700-1900: get 1 Great Spy each.
- First civ that conquered >5 cities: gets 1 Great General.
- Civ with highest average culture slider level from 1000-1500: gets 1 Great Artist
- Civ with highest average science slider level from 1400-1800: gets 1 Great Scientist

 

[Sandmonster1989]

The "Quest" with circumnavigating the globe giving +1 movement still exists (unless I am mistaken).
And many ancient/medieval wonders require either a civic or religion already.

Just a thought. I think many medieval units should require religion: An example: macemen (since you stopped using them) could require catholicism. So should some sort of crusader knight. An equivalent camel archer-esque unit that could require Islam. Just a minor suggestion that may be able to work itself into the proposed unit/combat changes.

 

[Leoreth]

American UHV is already nearly impossible as Germany/England always get the Pentagon and the SoL. I never even have a chance to start the Pentagon.

Agree, their UHV definitely doesn't need to be expanded. I also consider to give them Steam Engine on spawn, which they should have historically and would give them a head start on the way to Assembly Line.

Leoreth: What happened to your computer? You think it could be a virus of sorts? I just recovered from one (randomly out of nowhere it was fixed by my antivirus program). If it a virus I suggest the program AVG. It works really well and its free.

I got completely no video signal anymore, and it turned out my mainboard was malfunctioning. I've already bought a new one, but didn't have the time to build it in yet (never done it before).

Oh, I found some wonders:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7060423
Hope ur computer works well soon!

Wow, those are awesome! Especially the ones from East Asia. Maybe you'll see some of them in DoC in the future

Quick suggestion about wonders.

How easy would it be to make all wonders that require religions and civics to be twice as expensive. If the civ has the religion/civic, then the wonder production would be +100%. It doesn't have to be those exact numbers, but this way most wonders will still remain semi-geographical in location but wonders won't be as strictly deterministic as they are now.

In many games I play, I find that my production city ends up disproportionately producing a vast majority producing a large portion of the wonders of the world. It might make more sense to give a city a -10% wonder production per wonder in city. Hopefully this will spread out the wonders a bit and make human controlled cities like Rome or Budapest not have >8 wonders every game.

Your first idea wouldn't be that easy to include, but I think that lucky religion spreads can still avoid complete determinism (which is why I didn't make state religion necessary). And with the recent version, the eastern civs have a chance at all wonders again (simply adopt Pantheon).

The second idea I like a lot. I would have to figure out the easiest way to achieve that, but not having every wonder in production heavy cities is very right in principle.

I know quests still do exist in RFC, but could there be some tweaks made to it so they could be more historical and more realistic and fun to achieve?
Some suggestions:
[...]

Yeah, I also already had some ideas for historical (or civ specific) quests and events. But that's actually an entire field of its own, which probably warrants an entire dedicated version in its own right.

 

[DisposableHero]

Is the crossed out part still valid? However, there really seems to be something wrong with the Maya and the WB. It seems as if the game wants to display something it can't find, and dies trying. How it annoys me not to be able to look this up

Yeah. To surmise: started as Maya, WB crashed. Switched to Vikings, WB crashed. Started as Egypt, WB worked. Started as Ethiopia, WB worked till about turn 500 (on Marathon) ish, WB crashed.

 

[AdrienIer]

Just a thought. I think many medieval units should require religion: An example: macemen (since you stopped using them) could require catholicism. So should some sort of crusader knight. An equivalent camel archer-esque unit that could require Islam. Just a minor suggestion that may be able to work itself into the proposed unit/combat changes.

I agree. right now, the religion is only usefull as a culture and diplomacy feature, but it could be far more than that. In RFCE and SoI they have distinct bonuses, and it's very usefull. It would also make some choices more complicated, like converting to buddhism with khmer, as right now it's easier to convert everyone to buddhism if you have no State-religion, especially the catholic europeans.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah. To surmise: started as Maya, WB crashed. Switched to Vikings, WB crashed. Started as Egypt, WB worked. Started as Ethiopia, WB worked till about turn 500 (on Marathon) ish, WB crashed.

Okay, thanks again. That looks like a rather severe problem ...

I agree. right now, the religion is only usefull as a culture and diplomacy feature, but it could be far more than that. In RFCE and SoI they have distinct bonuses, and it's very usefull. It would also make some choices more complicated, like converting to buddhism with khmer, as right now it's easier to convert everyone to buddhism if you have no State-religion, especially the catholic europeans.

I'm totally with you here, but I always only can work at one specific feature at a time. That's currently bugfixing, refining and expanding the respawn mechanic (that seems like the most wanted feature here) and small changes I can add in on a whim.

Well, and I have to admit that the last version almost exclusively consisted of the latter category

 

[Osborneman]

How do cultural borders work? I used to think it was the civ that has the highest percentage on a given tile, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I was the phoenicians and the culture of babylon went all the way touching my city on two sides, even though I had a lot more percentage in the tiles.

The dot in the screenshot is the tile with the cursor on it.

 

[Magnificent One]

I was about to say because if it's their core area,tiles becoe thiers at 20% culture,but since it's your core area,i can't tell why.I thought it was the highest percentage as well.

 

[Sandmonster1989]

How do cultural borders work? I used to think it was the civ that has the highest percentage on a given tile, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I was the phoenicians and the culture of babylon went all the way touching my city on two sides, even though I had a lot more percentage in the tiles.

Yeah, I've had a similar problem on a couple of occasions. I used to have the biggest problem back in regular RFC when I was the Babylonians and the Arabs would cut off all my territories south of the Rivers.

I can't wait for the new impliments on the game after it works perfect.

 

[dcode147]

I'm guessing doing discounts on unit and building production under certain religions is just as difficult as doing wonder discounts for certain religions?

Otherwise, it would mean that anyone can create knights, but just that it would be a lot cheaper and more worthwhile if one used vassalage and other "medieval" civics.

 

[Leoreth]

How do cultural borders work? I used to think it was the civ that has the highest percentage on a given tile, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I was the phoenicians and the culture of babylon went all the way touching my city on two sides, even though I had a lot more percentage in the tiles.

The dot in the screenshot is the tile with the cursor on it.

I'd first have to check if that area is really Phoenicia's core (I suspect there's something wrong with the display). It seems more like Babylonia's to me; there even might be a harmful overlap.

I'm guessing doing discounts on unit and building production under certain religions is just as difficult as doing wonder discounts for certain religions?

Otherwise, it would mean that anyone can create knights, but just that it would be a lot cheaper and more worthwhile if one used vassalage and other "medieval" civics.

The thing is, the building and unit XML has no appropriate tags for something like that yet. So I'd have to implement that first before I could edit anything in, which is rather much work, especially because it's not guaranteed to work at my first attempt.

I could also hardcode the effects of course, but that strikes me as rather bad style.

 

[DisposableHero]

Okay, thanks again. That looks like a rather severe problem ...

I can show you my logfiles (if you show me yours ). Which ones do you need to see?

 

[Leoreth]

Let's start with init and Python Errors