Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[KMRblue1027]

They do, it seems you just got unlucky or haven't been nice enough to the AI. Isabella's demands are better not refused
There was no change on my part, though.

But I'm interested: was it difficult to conquer Rome by 1000 AD? I consider making it part of HRE's UHV.

It takes a lot a luck because hammering at the city with siege weapons takes a long time because of the 125% defensive bonus. France helped me with trebuches (I can't spell shows how good our schools are) but somehow they had guilds very early (Before I spawned likely a goody hut.) So they caped Roma and Vendig on turn one of the war. After failing to recap the cities I kinda rage quit and went to a RFC American game which I go my ass kicked.

 

[Sandmonster1989]

A few things:

Love the new changes so far. I like not requiring marble for older techs but pantheon instead. Also, I like seeing the stable tiles on the map.

As a west coaster I would like to say that the west coast needs more seafoods. Its been a while but does it have a source of Wine? California and Oregon are very large producers of Wine. Northern California, Eastern Oregon and Washington are very big on agriculture (big producers of wheat, apples, berries, timber, etc.). (Oh, I've lived in San Francisco for a year and a half... its San Fran SF or San Francisco not Frisco--they don't like it.)

I've found when I play the HRE that the civs around me hate me no matter what. I had civs like Russia declare war then get France and Vikings allied against me, too (sounds like a trend).

I've been thinking of a Babylonian UP replacement while playing as them. The people were really controlled with their law and Babylon was emulated for a long time, why not give a power like that? Give them free courthouses? Make cities easier to convert from Babylonian culture? Give a general bonus in happyness once Code of Laws is discovered? (The last one is my favorite).

 

[dcode147]

Ancient Warfare: I think I'll completely remove Axemen here. Bronze age wars should be fought with spears. Chariots will definitely get buffed. I don't know if we need an additional horseman unit, as far as I know mounted warfare was underdeveloped until the discovery of the stirrup.
I'm also considering to give Archers the role of collateral damage units, with catapult solely suitable for city attacks, but that'd be an even more extensive change.

Yeah, axeman as their stats currently stand don't make ancient warefare very much fun. Instead of completely taking them out, would it be possible to replace them with a heavy class of infantry as opposed to light infantry which would form the bulk of armiers? (it's always a bit painful to see something go away)

I still think there needs to be something like Horsemen that represent non-uber heavily armored cavalry. Quantity-wise there were definitely more lighter cavalry units used throughout history than knights. Stirrup or not, they could represent units such as Roman Equites, Greek Companion Calvalry, Numidian horsemen, Irish Hobelars, Asian mounted forces (which again, were oftentimes nowhere near as heavily armored as knights) mounted raiding parties etc... These light cavalry units would form an effective part of the classical era forces for destroying chariots and catapults, chasing down enemy wounded units, pillaging improvements. I like Corrosol's use of the Numidian cavalry image for Mediterranean-themed horsemen units. Maybe some other images could be found for other regions?

Medieval Warfare: Horse Archers will get buffed so that they're still useful when the Mongols spawn (and Camel Archers and Keshiks probably will become UUs of that type). I'll add Halberdiers as a new anti-cavalry unit, while the new Levies should already serve as your mentioned cannon fodder unit.
The reason Halberdiers are added is that I'd like to try to establish a distinctive Renaissance rock-paper-scissors between Pikemen / Musketmen / Cuirassiers.

I like the Medieval unit ideas. Again, Horse Archers can be buffed more (like also have 90% withdraw rate) if they come later during the Middle Ages, and Horsemen fill the mounted unit gap between chariots and Horse Archers. Also if Mongols and Arabs get unique units to replace horse archers, there really isn't a playable civ left represented in the mod that historically made great extensive use of horse archers. I suggest Mongolian Keshiks and Arabia Camel UU should replace the Horsemen unit (stats and cost of their UUs don't have to be based on the substantially weaker Horsemen's stats at all).

Is there some way of making archers be able to damage units without getting hurt themselves? I don't know how difficult it would be to have a "bombard" button that causes collateral damage to that tile. Problem with this might be that it would be hard to get AIs to use archers correctly.

Another possibility is to give them very low strength (like 2) but extremely high (like 90%) withdraw rate and then make them cause collateral damage every time. Archers will still be good for defense due to higher defensive bonuses than other units on hills (eg: like 100% instead of 25%), forests, jungles and cities. If archers get attacked, they just stand their ground and won't withdraw then. I would like to also see some archer "length of time fortified bonus is doubled" eg: fortifying for 4 turns would give +40% defense. Essentially archers will get slaughtered by any unit if they're attacked on plains or grasslands, but if they're fortified on hill, forest, jungle or city for several turns, then they would be formidable on defense. Difference between archery units (with nearly 100% withdraw rates) and mounted units (like Knights with increased to 30% withdraw rates) is that archers have like no strength and so most likely won't be able to kill units while mounted units are good at mostly killing units, but also good at wounding units if they can't win. Horse archers would be somewhere in the middle like an archer with more str, more mobility, the possibility of withdrawing while defending, but without the defensive bonuses.

Archers should also have lots of first strikes so cavalry can own them.

 

[civ_king]

A few things:

Love the new changes so far. I like not requiring marble for older techs but pantheon instead. Also, I like seeing the stable tiles on the map.

As a west coaster I would like to say that the west coast needs more seafoods. Its been a while but does it have a source of Wine? California and Oregon are very large producers of Wine. Northern California, Eastern Oregon and Washington are very big on agriculture (big producers of wheat, apples, berries, timber, etc.). (Oh, I've lived in San Francisco for a year and a half... its San Fran SF or San Francisco not Frisco--they don't like it.)

I've found when I play the HRE that the civs around me hate me no matter what. I had civs like Russia declare war then get France and Vikings allied against me, too (sounds like a trend).

I've been thinking of a Babylonian UP replacement while playing as them. The people were really controlled with their law and Babylon was emulated for a long time, why not give a power like that? Give them free courthouses? Make cities easier to convert from Babylonian culture? Give a general bonus in happyness once Code of Laws is discovered? (The last one is my favorite).

ISan Fran!
"Meet me at the Saint Francis"

IMO a way to remedy California's under population is to coat the coast in Fish and put Flood Plains on them to represent the massive fish bounty and the coastal upwelling

 

[AOS9001]

Medieval Warfare: Horse Archers will get buffed so that they're still useful when the Mongols spawn (and Camel Archers and Keshiks probably will become UUs of that type). I'll add Halberdiers as a new anti-cavalry unit, while the new Levies should already serve as your mentioned cannon fodder unit.
The reason Halberdiers are added is that I'd like to try to establish a distinctive Renaissance rock-paper-scissors between Pikemen / Musketmen / Cuirassiers.

Epic. I've always thought the pikemen/musketmen combo was a fascinating way of fighting. Very effective until better guns (riflemen) came about... Time for me to download the patch and finally play this again.

As a west coaster I would like to say that the west coast needs more seafoods. Its been a while but does it have a source of Wine? California and Oregon are very large producers of Wine. Northern California, Eastern Oregon and Washington are very big on agriculture (big producers of wheat, apples, berries, timber, etc.). (Oh, I've lived in San Francisco for a year and a half... its San Fran SF or San Francisco not Frisco--they don't like it.)

Eastern Oregon is very big on the farming/ranching scene. I've been out there several times, and when it's not sagebrush, it's someone's cows or someone's wheat field.

 

[Sandmonster1989]

I was thinking and I believe that the Golden Gate Bridge should be included as a wonder, available around industrialism (maybe a little after). It should require Environmentalism and give points towards the great artists and provide a few great artists. Oh, and doubled production speed with Copper.

What do u guys think?

 

[The Turk]

Same as Sydney Opera House, it was built too late.

 

[Cethegus]

I was thinking and I believe that the Golden Gate Bridge should be included as a wonder, available around industrialism (maybe a little after). It should require Environmentalism and give points towards the great artists and provide a few great artists. Oh, and doubled production speed with Copper.

What do u guys think?

Environmentalism isn't in the game anymore, buddy. Unless you mean Serfdom.

Perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised that someone else thought of revamping the unit system as well. I might as well post my unit changes made in the game:

Spoiler :

- All Archer and Longbowmen units cause collateral damage at the same rate as siege units (100/50/6) to give them a place on both in and outside of the city walls. They're 3/6 strength units which is the same as using a catapult or a battering ram, anyway.

- Horseman unit added in the game, History in the Making inspired with 6/2 stats. Requires Metal Casting, Horseback Riding and Horses and Iron. Essentially horse-riding Swordsmen, no unit currently replaces it.

- Horse Archer renamed as Skirmisher. Weak unit with high withdrawal rate and the collateral damage ability with same stats as other bow units. 4/2, starts with Drill I promotion, 40% withdrawal rate. No flanking attacks.

- Stable and Ger bonus raised to +3/+5 exp for mounted units.

- Spearman raised to 5 strength, Pikeman to 7. Both have +50% vs. mounted units. Musketmen now have 10 strength.

- Swordsmen units have +25% city attack. Axemen removed, Macemen's melee bonus removed, or at least lowered to +25%.

- Keshik remains as Knight with 12 strength and ignores terrain movement bonus. Panzer now has 3 movement and Cho-Ko-Nu rate of collateral damage to promote their use in blitzkrieg (50/60/5). Cho-Ko-Nu now has the catapult rate of bombardment, -8% per turn. Ballista Elephant bombards like Cannons, -12% per turn.
Arabia's new unique unit (Ansâr) is still under development.

- City Raider, Garrison, Drill and Flanking promotions provide a steady bonus instead of having to work for any ultimate goal. +25% / +25% / +1 first strike, +1 first strike chance / +20% for every level. Drill promotions give access to same promotions as the Combat line, except the aviatorial ones.

The following ideas are put on standby for the moment but I might as well post them:
- New promotion: Marksman. Requires Combat III / Drill III and targets the weakest unit in the enemy stack by default. Essentially designed to promote war of attrition.

- Compass (or Astronomy) gives +1 movement to any Melee, Archery, Gunpowder and Mounted units. Idea behind that is to make wars less tiring and more grand-scale in more modern history. Note that siege units still remain 1 movement artillery. Whether armored units should receive this bonus, I don't know.

If Keshiks are to remain as Knight replacements, Mongols could use the new Skirmisher units as mobile catapults and finish the enemy off with the heavy cavalry Keshiks. Stables and Ger are slightly improved to promote such tactics.

And History Rewritten uses the Khitan Cavalry graphics for Keshik. I liked it so I installed it in the game as well. Following examples. I'll upload graphics and XML if needed.

 

[Leoreth]

Those are really awesome ideas!

If I only could continue modding ...

 

[Jusos2108]

Thanks for the map! There definitely needs something to be done with Petersburg, but moving every ressource you marked would be overpowered. Maybe I move the copper 1S and the cow 1E and turn tundra into grass ...

There should also be a river (Neva) connecting the lake 1E of St. Petersburg to the Gulf of Finland. Without it human players (at least myself) are unlikely to build it. (I don't know does the AI value river spots better..?)

 

[Opera]

Some python exceptions:

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

  File "CvRFCEventManager", line 111, in handleEvent

  File "CvRFCEventManager", line 122, in _handleDefaultEvent

  File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 450, in onBeginGameTurn

  File "RiseAndFall", line 836, in checkTurn

  File "RiseAndFall", line 1555, in rebirth

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "CvEventInterface", line 23, in onEvent

  File "CvRFCEventManager", line 111, in handleEvent

  File "CvRFCEventManager", line 122, in _handleDefaultEvent

  File "CvRFCEventHandler", line 640, in onTechAcquired

  File "Religions", line 292, in onTechAcquired

  File "Religions", line 299, in reformation

  File "Religions", line 304, in reformationchoice

  File "Religions", line 277, in reformationPopup

  File "Religions", line 269, in showPopup

NameError: global name 'Popup' is not defined
ERR: Python function onEvent failed, module CvEventInterface

 

[rob85]

Thanks for the map! There definitely needs something to be done with Petersburg, but moving every ressource you marked would be overpowered. Maybe I move the copper 1S and the cow 1E and turn tundra into grass ...

I don't think so. Kiev has 2 pigs, 1 deer, 1 iron, 1 horse, 1 wheat, a river and some hills, while Petersburg has only 1 copper, 1 cow, (after your change), 1 tundra (after your change), no river and no hills. Actually, Petersburg would be a 'mediocre' city and it should be at least a 'good' one. Either move wheat or add fish (aluminum can stay, it's a late resource anyway). And maybe add a river, as Jusos2108 suggested.

Those 'server is too busy at the moment' errors are getting more and more annoying

 

[LuKo]

- City Raider, Garrison, Drill and Flanking promotions provide a steady bonus instead of having to work for any ultimate goal. +25% / +25% / +1 first strike, +1 first strike chance / +20% for every level. Drill promotions give access to same promotions as the Combat line, except the aviatorial ones.

So every promotion is worse than the promotion before. Why? Because if you add +25% of basis you give less percentage boost every time (1-> 1.25 is +25% 1,25->1,5 is +20%, and so on).

If I only could continue modding ...

I know the pain I'm on my laptop now (yeah, I took what I needed, but the laptop is a lot worse than my PC).

 

[Cethegus]

Because the earlier promotions are not even useful at all times, meaning for them to start paying off you need to invest to them until you reach the end of the line. Especially in the case of the Drill.
Drill I gives you 1 first strike chance and is the starting promotion. Drill IV requires 17 exp (a good number of enemies you need to kill along the way) and gives 2 first strikes, less collateral damage and a unit combat modifier. Because Drill I doesn't necessarily even trigger every time, you might as well be sending a drafted unit to fight. Don't you see that a bit alarming?

As for the percential modifiers, why does the rise need to be exponential? The starting promotions are sometimes just depressingly bad and make it hard for starting units to get by, but more importantly, the veteran units after there's no more Drill or City Raider promotions to specialize in. Have you ever experienced that?

The main problem here is whether there's more strength packed in the start or end promotions. And honestly, which part do we get to see more?

 

[DisposableHero]

IIRC, Aztec Marathon did work back in 1.3, if that helps at all.

 

[Sandmonster1989]

Those are really awesome ideas!

If I only could continue modding ...

YES!! I Know the feeling, kinda. My computer has been spazing out really bad lately.

Anyways... I was thinking that it would be nice to add the Golden Gate Bridge as a wonder then add it to America's UHV. Give a little extra something to that part of the challenge. I also think the Graceland wonder should be added to this list... is 5 too many wonders?

What do you constitue as a late wonder, Turk? The Statue of Liberty was dedicated 50 years before the Golden Gate Bridge was finished. Christo Redentor was built about the same time as the Bridge. I think it would constitute as an industrial Era wonder.

 

[DisposableHero]

Maya, Marathon, 3000BC start - crash every time I open WB.

Same after I switch to Vikings, too. Must be more general with the Maya. It works if I load up a new game as, say, the egyptians.

Just started a new game as Ethiopia on Marathon. WB worked for the first few turns. Then around turn 556, right after the Arabs had been born and the Romans destroyed, WB crashed on opening again.

 

[AdrienIer]

I was just thinking that if new civs are implemented, it will probably unbalance the game quite a lot. I'm totally for it, but it might cause problems : if Prussia spawns in the 1700s it means that the territory of Germany/Poland will probably be colonized (whether by the HRE or by indies). So do they deserve a settler on spawn ? If yes, then will they not use it to settle a poor location if the good spots are already taken ? And if not, what will happen if Berlin has just been razed ?
There is a similar problem with Turkey : with the Byzantines playable, it would be too easy for the human player to mess up with their game by settling a poor city in the 1200s in southwestern Anatolia, keep it unprotected and destroy the turks easily.
With the USA such problems rarely arrive : a city around Washington is never founded before their arrival and there is always land to the west to colonize even with extra settlers.
Anyway, those problems will surely be taken care of in due time (which means, not now) but that was on my mind right now.

 

[jammerculture]

If you could mod the units to promote combined arms tactics instead of the current system where new units obsolete older ones, it would be the single greatest addition to this game since the creation of RFC. This has always been the weak point in civ4 for me.

A couple of other changes I would love to see implemented: building destruction. I think it would be cool to limit building destruction in captured cities. I think it should be tied to use of siege. If a group of swordsman storm a city alone, would they really stop to destroy the granary?

This could bring a new tactic to warfare in civ, where you would destroy buildings in cities with siege bombardment as a tactic instead of taking the city completely. If implemented this should also reduce population in the city under siege. Especially in RFC where capturing too many cities gives you bad stability, but razing them does the same; a mechanic such as this would give another option in warfare. It would also create more incentive to counterattack from the city.

Culture destruction. Many times in civ your plans get ruined by another civ's city placement and the resulting cultural contamination of your region. Currently you have few options, some of which can only be undertaken at prohibitive costs, i.e. breeding an artist to flip the city. I would like to see more options for cultural warfare. One option could be to use the raze command to weaken the cultural strength of a tile, increasing the likelihood of flipping. I think this is realistic as what is culture really. I have always seen cultural borders in civ as representing the areas where your language is spoken, your stories told etc etc. Well in reality when invaders begin pillaging the countryside, those people who speak your language, tell your stories etc flee to the city, leaving the area open to your settlement by those who speak your language.

As well, after playing SoI, my desire to have a game mechanic which allows barbarian "bandits' or "rebels" (I wont say the "T" word again) spawning inside your borders, whether its tied to stability or not, has been strengthened. This aspect of that other mod greatly increased realism and enjoyment.


Also, I, and I'm sure other members of this community, would be willing to donate to help you get your computer back up and running.

 

[SanePerson]

Other modders have implemented the "Stirrup" tech to represent heavier cavalry and used Horseback Riding to represent early cavalry/elephants. If you want to add a historical extra Ancient/Classical Age horse unit, that would be a way to do it.