Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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They were, but being a merchant in Civ amounts to sitting around in your cities and hire specialists, which isn't quite what they did.

But spawning a GM and trying to make a mission is good enough :P

I could imagine adding something like that in the long run.

Rooting out a religion is extremely hard. I would allow removing when conquering only if there is no temple of the religion. If there is you can raze the temple. And then you could get event/build inquisitor or anything like that. About inquisitor: if there will be sth like that there should be two kinds of it (both needed to remove a religion and still only if there is no temple)" normal one and cheaper but immobile (it could be a kind of building[?]) so a city itself has to try get rid of the religion.
 
We could steal "Massacre the disbelievers!" from SoI, if you want to get rid of non-state religions in a city. It's happened many times in history.
 
Wasen't there an alternate name in normal RFC for London if the vikings settled it ? I remember reading something about that when squatting was possible.
 
I also thought so, but I certainly didn't remove it.
 
Leoreth,

When China gets past 50 AD, DoC crashes. Is there a problem with the mod there?

I have attached the save.
 

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I've backtracked the error to the unit creation when the Maya spawn. I just don't understand what could've gone wrong, the code seems okay and I've neither touched it nor anything related to the Maya. The only thing I've noticed is that the game also crashes without error message when I try to open the worldbuilder.

Are sure your save isn't broken somehow? I'll try if I can reproduce the error with one of my own saves.

Edit: I played until 200 AD with Ethiopeans and the Maya spawned without problems ...
 
I just discovered that the Chinese UHV doesn't work properly. If one GA is started while another is still active, it's not counted as distinctive GA.
 
1. Small typo: "production comsumes" instead of "consumes" (levy):)
2. I have never seen Russia conquering Kiev. It's usually German or Viking and doesn't interest Russia at all.
3. Speaking of Russia, could you make Petersburg more powerful? It's one of the most important city in Russia but in the game it's very weak. I attach screen with my ideas, basically moving resources and turning some tundras in Karelia into grasslands.
 

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I agree about St Petersburg. It was the Russia capitol for a long time but in RFC it's most of the time not even created (even though it's good that Novgorod gets represented). And the western coast of NAm could be upgraded too, because currently you only get a few grasslands, water tiles and mountain wherever the city is placed (ok, that's an exageration, but California could use some seafood or metal from the Rocky mountains in its big cross).
 
]And the western coast of NAm could be upgraded too, because currently you only get a few grasslands, water tiles and mountain wherever the city is placed (ok, that's an exageration, but California could use some seafood or metal from the Rocky mountains in its big cross).

As a native West Coaster, I approve. Though California already gets very big without seafood...
 
Good to see another update. The changes are (almost) enough to pull me away from Civ5!

Its good that the stability thing for AI has been added, imo. Too many of my Japan games have ended in arms and tech races with a superpowered Rome or Greece ruling a Christian Europe with half the countries as vassals.

Speaking of China, is its stability affected at all now? I rarely see China collapse ever. Certainly it never seems to so much as blink when the Mongols show up. Could they be buffed at all? They usually end up getting beaten by China and settling the barren central Asian wastes.

Also, did you get to the bottom of the Aztec Marathon bug?
 
1. Small typo: "production comsumes" instead of "consumes" (levy):)
Thanks, will be fixed.

2. I have never seen Russia conquering Kiev. It's usually German or Viking and doesn't interest Russia at all.
Ditto. I guess it's because Kiev is already in its native areas and therefore not a candidate for conquest? I'll try and see what happens when I increase some numbers.

3. Speaking of Russia, could you make Petersburg more powerful? It's one of the most important city in Russia but in the game it's very weak. I attach screen with my ideas, basically moving resources and turning some tundras in Karelia into grasslands.
Thanks for the map! There definitely needs something to be done with Petersburg, but moving every ressource you marked would be overpowered. Maybe I move the copper 1S and the cow 1E and turn tundra into grass ...

I agree about St Petersburg. It was the Russia capitol for a long time but in RFC it's most of the time not even created (even though it's good that Novgorod gets represented). And the western coast of NAm could be upgraded too, because currently you only get a few grasslands, water tiles and mountain wherever the city is placed (ok, that's an exageration, but California could use some seafood or metal from the Rocky mountains in its big cross).
I see 40% Petersburg and 60% Novgorod usually ... but Petersburg really is not that decent.

For California, a map like that for Petersburg would be very welcome :) LA and Frisco definitely need the opportunity to become useful cities.
 
Speaking of China, is its stability affected at all now? I rarely see China collapse ever. Certainly it never seems to so much as blink when the Mongols show up. Could they be buffed at all? They usually end up getting beaten by China and settling the barren central Asian wastes.
I have already started working out how Mongolia could be buffed. But because their redesign involves some intended changes I'd like to make as a whole concerning medieval units, I didn't touch them for now.

Mongolia currently has two major problems:
1. Not destroying China
2. Not expanding into Western Asia and Europe.

They should be easily capable of crushing China from start, their army is usually big enough and the new UP even helps them further. The problem is that the AI doesn't seem partial to simply crush them, and wastes time in its barren core lands until it's out-teched. I'll try if I maybe can add in some scripting via AI-warplans.
To drive them to the west more, I already considered flipping Merv and Samarkand to them. Also there could be some kind of "conqueror" event for them ... upon meeting Russia, Arabia or Persia, they could spawn a rather large army coupled with a scripted declaration of war.

Also, did you get to the bottom of the Aztec Marathon bug?
Unfortunately not. The game isn't so kind to give me an error message, and without that I can only guess. And because I didn't alter the Aztecs in any way, I don't even know where to start. And I know only parts of the autoplay code yet.
 
Also there could be some kind of "conqueror" event for them ... upon meeting Russia, Arabia or Persia, they could spawn a rather large army coupled with a scripted declaration of war.
That I like. Could call it a "Horde" event ;)

Could also work with Germany/Vikings/Turks/Greece/Byzantines no?

Also, it would be real nice to put the vassals under their master (and indented, ie like in BUG) in the score list.

Another thing: how long is the unstability from switching to democracy supposed to last? It never ended in my game as the Portugal. More than a hundred turns with it I think.
 
I have already started working out how Mongolia could be buffed. But because their redesign involves some intended changes I'd like to make as a whole concerning medieval units, I didn't touch them for now.

Mongolia currently has two major problems:
1. Not destroying China
2. Not expanding into Western Asia and Europe.

They should be easily capable of crushing China from start, their army is usually big enough and the new UP even helps them further. The problem is that the AI doesn't seem partial to simply crush them, and wastes time in its barren core lands until it's out-teched. I'll try if I maybe can add in some scripting via AI-warplans.
To drive them to the west more, I already considered flipping Merv and Samarkand to them. Also there could be some kind of "conqueror" event for them ... upon meeting Russia, Arabia or Persia, they could spawn a rather large army coupled with a scripted declaration of war.

Yay to unit redesign!! =)

I have some unit suggestions in general (haven't thought them out by any means, nor have i the slightest idea how they would affect balance or AI unit strategies).

-Chariots I feel played a much larger role in history than in RFC. I feel like they should be made much stronger, and a bit more expensive, so they become the super unit of the ancient age (almost like how knights currently dominate the middle ages). Maybe they could have 4 str, immune to first strikes with +50% attack vs warriors, archers, spearmen and axemen.

-Spearmen should be made weaker, cheaper, fodder and essentially become the mainstay of an ancient army supplemented by other units. Maybe their maintenance cost could also be significantly lower (or even nonexistant) compared to other units'.

-Defender units (such as archers etc..) should increase their first strike capabilities. This will further reward using immune to first strike units against them.

-Something should be done about horse archers in general. I think there should be a "Horseman" unit, representing historical units such as Greek companions, Roman equites in addition to mounted warriors of the Steppes horse archers currently represent. The Horsemen would be available a bit earlier than Horse Archers currently are (maybe make that tech cheaper) and in general act as Horse Archers do now, but at an earlier, more useful time.

Historically Mongols made extensive use of horse archers but currently in the mod at their spawn time, horse archers are too weak and only play a secondary role to heavier cavalry. I think there are two easy possibilities. One is to have the Mongol UU be some sort of special horse archer that replaces Horse Archer(old)/Horsemen and be something like 7 str with a ridiculously, super high withdraw rate (to represent Parthian tacticxs) and ignores terrain movement costs. 7 str isn't exactly enough to conquer Middle Ages cities alone, but the really high withdraw rate would mean the Mongol UU can substantially weaken an opponent before sending in heavier units such as Knights to finish off the job. This way Mongols can rely on two units, their UU and knights, as their main tools for conquest rather than just Keshiks alone. Asian knights also have a cool graphic :P

A second possibility might be to have a Horse Archer(new) in addition to the Horse Archer(old)/Horsemen that is available to all civs with a later tech. This horse archer(new) in general would be strong enough to compete with Medieval age units. In this situation it wouldn't really matter whether the Mongol UU replaced the Horse Archer(old)/Horsemen or Knights. The only thing I wonder is that whether it would be necessary to come up with the stronger Horse Archer(new) in the Middle Ages since no other major civ represented in the mod made extensive use of them other than Persians (though in this mod they represent more Achaemenids rather than Safavids).

-Longbowmen/Musketman and Pikeman combo. I'm not really sure how to change game rules to make this combo use more appealing. Limiting knights to certain civics does seem like it helps.

One possibility is to sort of adjust and reverse roles crossbowmen and longbowmen have in the mod. Change crossbowmen to fill the role longbowmen currently do as city defenders (during most sieges, historically crossbows were preferred since it was more accurate and rate of fire didn't matter as much). Then change longbowmen to 5 str, 3 first strikes, +80% unit attack against melee units, and archery units. Musketmen could have something similar, 7 str, +50% attack against melee units and archery units. In both these cases, players will need to use Pikemen to protect their powerful offensive longbows and musketman against mounted units.

-Galleys should have faster movement than most primitive sailboats in coastal areas. Caravels could be faster than galleys overall since they get double ocean movement bonus, but I feel in coastal areas, especially the Mediterranean, winds were never that great and sea powers preferred galleys over sailboats initially.

-Have Jaguar warrior replace axeman for Aztecs since they don't have cool axeman graphic. Give Jaguar warriors alone the unique ability to enslave units. (respawned Aztecs in 19th century shouldn't still be allow to have the practice of enslaving defeated units). Then this also frees up something else interesting to do with Aztec UP. Also give Aztecs some swordsman on their spawn to help them with their city conquests (and cuz unique graphics included shouldn't be wasted). Have Amerindian civs face a mix of barb and independent Holkans, Archers, Dog Soldiers and Jaguar Warriors. Change stats of Holkans to 4 str, 2 mvt, +50% str vs archery units and +100% city attack(I'm assuming you're planning on taking out Mayans). Change stats of Dog Soldier to 5 str, 1mvt, +50% str vs melee units, -50%str vs archery units. This will prolly add a bit more excitement to NA cuz Aztec and Incan players will have to micro a little bit by bringing out their infantry (Jaguars, Quechuas, swordsman...) against Holkans and archery units against Dog soldiers. Have NA barb spawns be replaced later with mix of Dog soldiers, Horse Archers(old)/Horsemen, and Mongol UU or Horse Archers(new).

-Raise the upkeep cost of certain units. Knights & catapults & ships >> lighter cavalry > special infantry (swordsman) > fodder infantry/cavalry counter (spearman). I think in general most armies shouldn't be all based upon swordsman (which were typically nobles throughout history) and should include a lot more fodder units such as spearmen.
 
That I like. Could call it a "Horde" event ;)

Could also work with Germany/Vikings/Turks/Greece/Byzantines no?
Sure. The idea is really very half-baked at the moment, if the Mongols would start running rampant in Russia and Persia I'd be very happy already :D

Also, it would be real nice to put the vassals under their master (and indented, ie like in BUG) in the score list.
If BUG has its source code openly available I could easily import that feature. Sounds rather nice indeed.

Another thing: how long is the unstability from switching to democracy supposed to last? It never ended in my game as the Portugal. More than a hundred turns with it I think.
In RFC, I guess it's randomized, but should definitely end at some point. I didn't deliberately change something here, but will recheck the code if my civic changes could've messed something up.

Yay to unit redesign!! =)

I have some unit suggestions in general (haven't thought them out by any means, nor have i the slightest idea how they would affect balance or AI unit strategies).

[...]
You're reading my mind aren't you?

Many of your suggestions were actually already part of my plans.

Ancient Warfare: I think I'll completely remove Axemen here. Bronze age wars should be fought with spears. Chariots will definitely get buffed. I don't know if we need an additional horseman unit, as far as I know mounted warfare was underdeveloped until the discovery of the stirrup.
I'm also considering to give Archers the role of collateral damage units, with catapult solely suitable for city attacks, but that'd be an even more extensive change.

Medieval Warfare: Horse Archers will get buffed so that they're still useful when the Mongols spawn (and Camel Archers and Keshiks probably will become UUs of that type). I'll add Halberdiers as a new anti-cavalry unit, while the new Levies should already serve as your mentioned cannon fodder unit.
The reason Halberdiers are added is that I'd like to try to establish a distinctive Renaissance rock-paper-scissors between Pikemen / Musketmen / Cuirassiers.

Amerindia: There's an awesome spearthrower model for Holkans that will be used; they'll replace Archers then ... who needs spears in America?


By the way, my desktop PC is currently experiencing mainboard problems, so I can't continue modding at the moment. All the files are there, I've got no C++ compiler here at my notebook and Civ runs rather slowly.
That's particularly egregious because I've found a way around Italy's city ruins problem yesterday and could've started implementing them in earnest :(
 
Did you make the AI super aggressive? As Germany everyone declares war on me for no reason doing the middle ages. I worked my ass of to get Rome before 1000 A.D. and lost it to a French, Viking, and Spanish alliance. Why do the computers not DoW on each other?
 
Did you make the AI super aggressive? As Germany everyone declares war on me for no reason doing the middle ages. I worked my ass of to get Rome before 1000 A.D. and lost it to a French, Viking, and Spanish alliance. Why do the computers not DoW on each other?
They do, it seems you just got unlucky or haven't been nice enough to the AI. Isabella's demands are better not refused ;)
There was no change on my part, though.

But I'm interested: was it difficult to conquer Rome by 1000 AD? I consider making it part of HRE's UHV.

BUg is entirely python.
That's even better! The change would probably only be a matter of seconds.
 
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