Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[AdrienIer]

@Leoreth : Those aren't complex ideas, so I suppose they didn't sink in, you just didn't see them : (the post was the last one of page 50, I'm proud of having left the 1000th post but if you didn't see it it's useless )

"Is it normal that independent cities get great generals ?
Also, although embassies are built in any of your cities when an other civ builds it in one of its cities, it would be better for the sake of accuracy to avoid the embassy to be built in the new world until 1750 : it's weird to see 'a Turkish embassy has been built in Ciudad de Mexico', 10 turns after you conquered it via the conqueror's event."


If you did see it then I apologise for re-posting.
To avoid a useless post in that case : is it possible to change the caravels to be able to transport troops ? It only has one cargo, so it's not going to change the mechanics of the game but it would allow the conquerors to spawn at sea which would grant more possibilities.
I would also back up the idea of settlers founding a city with the original city's religion (if doable).

 

[Opera]

Caravels are way too early to be able to transport troops. That would be a major change (since that would most likely mean settlers as well).

 

[dcode147]

Yeah, I saw your suggestion. Sorry that I can't comment on everything, especially ideas that complex can't be treated in a few sentences. Everything you write here is considered by me, of course, and it's always been my philosophy to let the more complex things sink in for some days.

Haha aiight. Sadly waiting for something to sink in on a forum usually means an idea is lost into obscurity...

Well to help summarize things, I think more independents in most areas and stronger independents in some areas are good. And I think the "union" civic idea might provide a good starting point for representing nations such as Canada, Australia, South Africa etc, without having to make them independent or each their own separate civ.

There is no preplaced city in western Lombardy, but Italy currently spawns with one settler, so you can theoretically choose between Milan, Genoa, Florence and Turin.

The only problem is that the AI hesitates to use its settler there, I guess because foreign Rome is so close.

How many turns is French and Independent Rome culture removed from Northern Italian tiles? Maybe if its done for multiple turns, as opposed to just the initial turn of the spawn it will work out better?

 

[Leoreth]

@Leoreth: that's good to hear, about the wonders. But I'd say you don't *need* models, really. They're buildings, who cares? I mean, it's not like the civilization flag which is ubiquitous. You really have to look to see buildings.

(Back among the FFH modding community, we've got the habit of putting things in even without graphics and only add graphics later if we ever find some.)

Also, about Italy's UP, I suggested it made it so captured wonders would still grant culture. You could simply combine both: captured wonders still grant culture and culture from any wonder is added to the gpp pool.

You're right about the models, but a button is the absolute minimum as I see it.

Culture from captured wonders is also a good idea, especially because of the wonders they get from Rome.

@Leoreth : Those aren't complex ideas, so I suppose they didn't sink in, you just didn't see them : (the post was the last one of page 50, I'm proud of having left the 1000th post but if you didn't see it it's useless )

"Is it normal that independent cities get great generals ?
Also, although embassies are built in any of your cities when an other civ builds it in one of its cities, it would be better for the sake of accuracy to avoid the embassy to be built in the new world until 1750 : it's weird to see 'a Turkish embassy has been built in Ciudad de Mexico', 10 turns after you conquered it via the conqueror's event."


If you did see it then I apologise for re-posting.
To avoid a useless post in that case : is it possible to change the caravels to be able to transport troops ? It only has one cargo, so it's not going to change the mechanics of the game but it would allow the conquerors to spawn at sea which would grant more possibilities.
I would also back up the idea of settlers founding a city with the original city's religion (if doable).

The independents are a civ in their own right, so of course they also can get great generals.

The embassy problem is only minor in my eyes, because the chance of it happening isn't that high. I also don't know an adequate heuristic to find acceptable cities and those which aren't.

As Cethegus already said, Caravels carrying cargo would bring many problems, especially a too early colonization.
Spreading religion on founding (or at least an increased spread chance) sounds good though.

Haha aiight. Sadly waiting for something to sink in on a forum usually means an idea is lost into obscurity...

Well to help summarize things, I think more independents in most areas and stronger independents in some areas are good. And I think the "union" civic idea might provide a good starting point for representing nations such as Canada, Australia, South Africa etc, without having to make them independent or each their own separate civ.

How many turns is French and Independent Rome culture removed from Northern Italian tiles? Maybe if its done for multiple turns, as opposed to just the initial turn of the spawn it will work out better?

It's not that I want something to get lost into obscurity, but a new civic brings up the question if we need a new civic in the other categories as well, which independents to place, what challenges it brings for gameplay etc.

For the Rome question, I fear it's more of a problem of too tight city locations like with the North English cities.

 

[Jusos2108]

So does the Italian luxury-UHV-condition require 8 different luxury resources to trigger? At least it didn't work for me with just eight all together. Sounds pretty difficult..

 

[Leoreth]

No, it's supposed to be the real resource number, not the number of different resources. But only resources that produce happiness without extra buildings count, not for example sheep which only give happiness with a market.

 

[dcode147]

I agree the embassy isn't a big issue. What about just having the embassy built automatically in the nation's capital as opposed to a random city?

 

[The Turk]

Although I understand that the HRE did not have a nominal capital, I think one of the most significant places in the Empire for political power was Aachen. Aachen is where many of the HR Emperors stayed, and where they were coranated. This would also put pressure off the East, and have the HRE (Germans), more involved with France and Spain and Italy as well (across the Alps). It would therefore have Russia able to expand properly, and hold on to Kiev (which seems to always be in the hands of the Germans), and would nominally stop a German Crimea, which I always tend to see. Also the Ottomans, would also hopefully be able to expand unmolested into the Crimea and Balkans, with only having to fight off the Russians initially, and then later the Germans, if they got far North enough.

 

[AOS9001]

Although I understand that the HRE did not have a nominal capital, I think one of the most significant places in the Empire for political power was Aachen. Aachen is where many of the HR Emperors stayed, and where they were coranated. This would also put pressure off the East, and have the HRE (Germans), more involved with France and Spain and Italy as well (across the Alps). It would therefore have Russia able to expand properly, and hold on to Kiev (which seems to always be in the hands of the Germans), and would nominally stop a German Crimea, which I always tend to see. Also the Ottomans, would also hopefully be able to expand unmolested into the Crimea and Balkans, with only having to fight off the Russians initially, and then later the Germans, if they got far North enough.

I'm all for Aachen, but that's very close to Amsterdam. Would that cause any problems?

 

[The Turk]

I'm all for Aachen, but that's very close to Amsterdam. Would that cause any problems?

You could replace Frankfurt with it, and instead later in the game, have Aachen switch its name with Frankfurt (like Edo to Tokyo)

 

[AOS9001]

You could replace Frankfurt with it, and instead later in the game, have Aachen switch its name with Frankfurt (like Edo to Tokyo)

That could happen, but then Aachen would be in the wrong spot. Sorta like having Vienna where Budapest is in-game.

 

[Cethegus]

Not to mention Edo and Tokyo are the same city, while Aachen and Frankfurt clearly aren't.

And to get them more interested in Italy, isn't it more beneficial to keep the capital at Vienna? Culturally the land in Poland is hardly contested, opposite to the Balkans.

 

[The Turk]

Aren't we adding Austria or Prussia or something? Although I would not like to see Prussia, I think Austria would be a great late coming civ to be placed in this mod

 

[scu98rkr]

I've suggested this before.

France and Germany should spawn at the exactly same time. France obviously around Paris and Germany near the Rhine. Aarchen would be a goodish suggestion but it a bit far west Frankfurt would a better suggestion.

The important change I'm suggesting is they should spawn in a state of union a Permanent Alliance. I think this would represent the early frankish kingdom and Charlemagnes empire quite well. Obviously they'd need less units or they would out tech everyone.

There then would be a few more barbarian spawns in central eastern europe to represent saxons, slavs, avars, bulgarians etc etc..

Eventually around say 962 AD, a scripted event would force separation and possibly even war between France / Germany.

This would leave eastern Europe to be fort over by Germans, Russian, Vikings and who ever else is still alive.

If this scripted event forced war between Germany/France this might also stop the medieval love in if all of Europe end up as Christian.

 

[Jusos2108]

No, it's supposed to be the real resource number, not the number of different resources. But only resources that produce happiness without extra buildings count, not for example sheep which only give happiness with a market.

Well then it doesn't work:

Spoiler :

The next turn it turned to No and my precious strategy was wasted..

 

[Sandmonster1989]

Vienne was a capital of the HRE, along with other cities like Aachen, Prague (14th century)... I think for the sake of the mod Vienne remains the capital because of the fact that the HRE is going to become the Austrian empire and the Prussians become the more modern Germany when the Prussians become incorporated.
Hehehe... HRE UP: No loss of stability when the Capital is moved/conquered/etc. just kidding though...
I think that the UU for the HRE when Prussia is instituted should switch from the Landsnecht to the Teutonic Knight (as they are a german unit) and Landsnechts could become a later more powerful pikeman (available to everyone) when you upgrade the units and combat.

I like the idea of extra production in Babylon after the discovery of CoL. Instead, maybe after CoL is researched, Villages and towns could give extra commerce and hammers? Something that could apply to more cities?

 

[Leoreth]

I agree the embassy isn't a big issue. What about just having the embassy built automatically in the nation's capital as opposed to a random city?

Yeah, that would make more sense anyway.

Not to mention Edo and Tokyo are the same city, while Aachen and Frankfurt clearly aren't.

And to get them more interested in Italy, isn't it more beneficial to keep the capital at Vienna? Culturally the land in Poland is hardly contested, opposite to the Balkans

2x agree. It has a nice side effect of more friction with Italy, and I also don't want to remove preplaced Frankfurt ... as you can see from the 3000 BC scenario, it tends to mess things up in Western Germany.

Aren't we adding Austria or Prussia or something? Although I would not like to see Prussia, I think Austria would be a great late coming civ to be placed in this mod

Always mind that Prussia = modern Germany. Austria would be what is left over of the HRE. It's all a question of dynamic names really.

I've suggested this before.

France and Germany should spawn at the exactly same time. France obviously around Paris and Germany near the Rhine. Aarchen would be a goodish suggestion but it a bit far west Frankfurt would a better suggestion.

The important change I'm suggesting is they should spawn in a state of union a Permanent Alliance. I think this would represent the early frankish kingdom and Charlemagnes empire quite well. Obviously they'd need less units or they would out tech everyone.

This would involve a lot scripting and determinism. I'm aware it's more historical, but I don't even know if it is possible to dissolve an alliance.

Well then it doesn't work:

The next turn it turned to No and my precious strategy was wasted..

I'll check the code again. You're strategy is quite good though

Vienne was a capital of the HRE, along with other cities like Aachen, Prague (14th century)... I think for the sake of the mod Vienne remains the capital because of the fact that the HRE is going to become the Austrian empire and the Prussians become the more modern Germany when the Prussians become incorporated.

Exactly.

Hehehe... HRE UP: No loss of stability when the Capital is moved/conquered/etc. just kidding though...

You'll laugh, but that's currently in the top two of my UP ideas: "The Power of Palatinates: palaces are cheaper and don't cost stability".

I think that the UU for the HRE when Prussia is instituted should switch from the Landsnecht to the Teutonic Knight (as they are a german unit) and Landsnechts could become a later more powerful pikeman (available to everyone) when you upgrade the units and combat.

I don't know ... there are quite a lot knight UUs around already, having Landsknechts as a pikeman UU would be nice overall.

I like the idea of extra production in Babylon after the discovery of CoL. Instead, maybe after CoL is researched, Villages and towns could give extra commerce and hammers? Something that could apply to more cities?

I planned to limit that to the capital on purpose to not encourage Babylonia to expand too much.

 

[The Turk]

wow wow wow! Lets slow down here!
Leoreth do you mind telling me what civs you plan to implement? Because I hear talk about Prussian UU's, Polynesia and Gran Colombia, and my mind is just spinning

Could tell us your future "big" ideas?

 

[Cethegus]

Is Gran Colombia even qualified to be considered here, for reasons other than flavor and unpredictability?

 

[SanePerson]

Considering the Landsknecht was Swiss and not an invention of the HRE, it would make more sense if the Landsknecht was available to everyone, possibly in the form of mercenarys.