What about giving Arabia a navy on spawn, or at their first Mediterranean port city conquered ? Weren't they pirates at first ? Then it wouldn't be too hard for the AI to get to Spain, without the determinism of a conqueror's event. Because in general the Byzantine navy controls southern Mediterranean and forbids you to prepare your attack against Spain.
Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth
- Thread starter Leoreth
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Sandmonster1989
Knights Templar
I have always had trouble with the Independents and Spanish building Triremes and defeating my undefended galleys. And then there's the times when my Triremes with 2 combat promotions lose to their less-upgraded triremes. o.0
@Leoreth: YES!! The Byzantines are so exciting... I want to see the byzantines a lot!! That is high up on my priority list of excitement (behind Babylon's UP, Prussia and Korea as civs if you can add more slots and the combat system upgrade).
@Leoreth: YES!! The Byzantines are so exciting... I want to see the byzantines a lot!! That is high up on my priority list of excitement (behind Babylon's UP, Prussia and Korea as civs if you can add more slots and the combat system upgrade).
They made units >.<
I just made a ridiculous game as Italy, I started as Greece killed Rome and built pretty much every ancient wonder in Rome, by the time Italy rolled around I had twelve along with like 30 settled GP!.
Leoreth, is it possible to set it so you can farm desert with biology? or even worker turn intensive "Land Reclamation Project" consuming 50 worker/turns (base of course) doable only on a desert tile bordering a river adding a flood plain on the tile?
From what I read here you did everything right, but there seems to be an error in the code (which is odd because I tested it). Can you enable Python exceptions (see the first post for instructions) and show me the popup of your defeat?
A navy might be enough for the player, but not for the AI. And it would be nice to have something for Spain to worry about until they can start colonizing.
This is just another in the long line of ways how to exploit the civ switch feature
I don't think it should be possible to transform deserts to something useful. It takes away too much of the map's balance.
Or it would make it possible to add more African civs in the future
From my understanding, marsh is exactly there because those tiles are not intended to be worked. Sorry, but I'm rather conservative there. Allowing to get rid of marshes (and deserts as well) would make certain areas far more useful than they are in reality. Think of Siberia or the Amazonas rainforest.
KMRblue1027
Deity
Well at the very least you should make some marches disappear at certain dates. Such as the swamp where Atlanta should be in NA around 1780 or something. Replace it with a town or village. The New Orleans swamp should be gone by the early 1900s as well. (Should be replaced with a farm.) A couple of the south Canadian swamps should go by the 1950s or something, make Winnipeg a good city that way. Personally I don't know too much about Siberia but NA's swamps are almost completely gone here in 2010.
PS: I want to play your mod so much but I also love my changes a lot too and I know I couldn't port my civic and respawning (Would break Italy) changes
PS: I want to play your mod so much but I also love my changes a lot too and I know I couldn't port my civic and respawning (Would break Italy) changes
From what I read here you did everything right, but there seems to be an error in the code (which is odd because I tested it). Can you enable Python exceptions (see the first post for instructions) and show me the popup of your defeat?
A navy might be enough for the player, but not for the AI. And it would be nice to have something for Spain to worry about until they can start colonizing.
This is just another in the long line of ways how to exploit the civ switch feature
I don't think it should be possible to transform deserts to something useful. It takes away too much of the map's balance.
Have you looked at California? it produces massive quantity of food in wait for it... reclaimed desert, it was expensive, but it is now very good land
Do I hear a bit regional bias here?
But seriously, I even agree with you, but then it should come as a scripted map evolution like KMRblue1027 suggested:
Well at the very least you should make some marches disappear at certain dates. Such as the swamp where Atlanta should be in NA around 1780 or something. Replace it with a town or village. The New Orleans swamp should be gone by the early 1900s as well. (Should be replaced with a farm.) A couple of the south Canadian swamps should go by the 1950s or something, make Winnipeg a good city that way. Personally I don't know too much about Siberia but NA's swamps are almost completely gone here in 2010.
PS: I want to play your mod so much but I also love my changes a lot too and I know I couldn't port my civic and respawning (Would break Italy) changes
Do I hear a bit regional bias here?
But seriously, I even agree with you, but then it should come as a scripted map evolution like KMRblue1027 suggested:
I hate those people, I want those [censored] to stop pumping our rivers dry!
The thing is with enough time and money it can be done anywhere
"California is the world's fifth largest supplier of food and agriculture commodities"
also check out Permaculture
With enough time and money we could build a land bridge from Spain to Florida
Which would be an international project. What I meant is that it is far more than individuals and would have to be done on a state level. I'd suggest a cost of 100
and 50 worker turns to reflect the cost. Your idea would have an estimated cost of 100000 per tileRegarding independent cities:
Sorry, I wasn't trying to request a map filled with preplaced independent cities. Autorazed cities (such as a Scottish Edinburgh) would reduce the amount of determinism.
Regarding dynamic terrains:
I think much more needs to be done to make lands more/less appealing to fit historical trend. For instance, as the Aztecs, I almost always try to found Denver and Chicago often even prior to the arrival of Europeans.
- North America (outside of Central America) needs to have much less/nearly no resources until 1500AD.
- Scandinavia, Germany, France, Spain needs to have much less resources until 600AD.
- Ancient centers of great civilizations represented in the game such as Egypt, Mesopotamia, Greece, North Africa should have slightly more resources prior to the end of their glory days, and much less resources later on so they become less attractive places to have cities.
- Remember "shielded grasslands" from civ 3? Maybe something like a fudge factor resource,that only boost tile food, commerce and production stats and serves no happiness, health or other benefits, could be added and removed at certain times to help make certain areas better represent their historical strength without unbalancing the number of resources in the game. The commerce resource could be added in tiles next to many cities along the Silk Route from years 1200-1500AD. Some commerce and production resources could be added in many Caribbean coastal tiles from 1450-1800AD, and food, production and commerce tiles could be added along Californian coast after 1850AD.
For your future plans, how do you plan on relating Canada to England in modern times? Do you want, in modern times, nations such as Canada to be, its own independent civ, a vassal civ of England, or to be part of England?
My personal preferred solution is to have the English civ in modern times represent all the nations currently in the Commonwealth if the English civ adopts some certain civic (which I will call "Union"). The Union civic will represent multiple nations tied together by a single culture and so should remain represented as one civilization. This Union civic will allow a civ such as England to keep most of its cities in non-core areas such as Canada, South Africa and Australia etc... Since these cities in non-core areas aren't directly part of the English civilization, England will only need to pay reduced maintenance for these cities. The downside is that these cities have a high production penalty that goes towards the production of military units and yield lower benefits of science and commerce than had England retained direct control of Canada.
Currently in your mod, civs such as England, Portugal, Spain and France etc... can only remain competitive in the world in terms of score, Space Race, victory etc... if they maintain ahistoric direct control over their colonies. If they lose their colonies, they all essentially become nonfactors for the remainder of the game.
I think the Union civic makes sense because it makes sense that Canadian and Australian scientific achievements are still understood to be "anglosphere" achievements. The reason the United States can be considered separate from this is because the US "civ" has a lot of open land to settle already to become one of the world superpowers. More superpowers in contention with each other makes the game (as another superpower) more interesting.
Summary:
If a civ does not adopt Union (like Spanish civilization historically), its cities in non-core areas will be much more likely to declare independence after nationalism, and even more likely to declare independence after the 1950's if stability is just a little low.
If a civ does adopt Union (like the English civilization with The Commonwealth and French civilization with the French Union),
-cities in non-core areas will be much less likely to declare independence (independence meaning from the Union, and not independence from the nation)
-cities in non-core areas will cost very, very low maintenance.
-cities in non-core areas production of military units will be much lower (Canadian, Indian, Australia etc.. troops came to England's help during the World Wars, but did not contribute nearly as much as English soldiers), science and commerce will be slightly lower
-other civ and independent cities in your historical areas will be much more likely to want to join your union
-other civs in located in your historical areas will more willing to be your vassal states
-cities in core area pay much higher maintenance costs (this is to encourage civs with small homelands and lots of colonies to adopt this civic rather than civs will large homelands to expand into such as China, Russia or United States from participation in the multinational union)
Sorry, I wasn't trying to request a map filled with preplaced independent cities. Autorazed cities (such as a Scottish Edinburgh) would reduce the amount of determinism.
Regarding dynamic terrains:
I think much more needs to be done to make lands more/less appealing to fit historical trend. For instance, as the Aztecs, I almost always try to found Denver and Chicago often even prior to the arrival of Europeans.
- North America (outside of Central America) needs to have much less/nearly no resources until 1500AD.
- Scandinavia, Germany, France, Spain needs to have much less resources until 600AD.
- Ancient centers of great civilizations represented in the game such as Egypt, Mesopotamia, Greece, North Africa should have slightly more resources prior to the end of their glory days, and much less resources later on so they become less attractive places to have cities.
- Remember "shielded grasslands" from civ 3? Maybe something like a fudge factor resource,that only boost tile food, commerce and production stats and serves no happiness, health or other benefits, could be added and removed at certain times to help make certain areas better represent their historical strength without unbalancing the number of resources in the game. The commerce resource could be added in tiles next to many cities along the Silk Route from years 1200-1500AD. Some commerce and production resources could be added in many Caribbean coastal tiles from 1450-1800AD, and food, production and commerce tiles could be added along Californian coast after 1850AD.
For your future plans, how do you plan on relating Canada to England in modern times? Do you want, in modern times, nations such as Canada to be, its own independent civ, a vassal civ of England, or to be part of England?
My personal preferred solution is to have the English civ in modern times represent all the nations currently in the Commonwealth if the English civ adopts some certain civic (which I will call "Union"). The Union civic will represent multiple nations tied together by a single culture and so should remain represented as one civilization. This Union civic will allow a civ such as England to keep most of its cities in non-core areas such as Canada, South Africa and Australia etc... Since these cities in non-core areas aren't directly part of the English civilization, England will only need to pay reduced maintenance for these cities. The downside is that these cities have a high production penalty that goes towards the production of military units and yield lower benefits of science and commerce than had England retained direct control of Canada.
Currently in your mod, civs such as England, Portugal, Spain and France etc... can only remain competitive in the world in terms of score, Space Race, victory etc... if they maintain ahistoric direct control over their colonies. If they lose their colonies, they all essentially become nonfactors for the remainder of the game.
I think the Union civic makes sense because it makes sense that Canadian and Australian scientific achievements are still understood to be "anglosphere" achievements. The reason the United States can be considered separate from this is because the US "civ" has a lot of open land to settle already to become one of the world superpowers. More superpowers in contention with each other makes the game (as another superpower) more interesting.
Summary:
If a civ does not adopt Union (like Spanish civilization historically), its cities in non-core areas will be much more likely to declare independence after nationalism, and even more likely to declare independence after the 1950's if stability is just a little low.
If a civ does adopt Union (like the English civilization with The Commonwealth and French civilization with the French Union),
-cities in non-core areas will be much less likely to declare independence (independence meaning from the Union, and not independence from the nation)
-cities in non-core areas will cost very, very low maintenance.
-cities in non-core areas production of military units will be much lower (Canadian, Indian, Australia etc.. troops came to England's help during the World Wars, but did not contribute nearly as much as English soldiers), science and commerce will be slightly lower
-other civ and independent cities in your historical areas will be much more likely to want to join your union
-other civs in located in your historical areas will more willing to be your vassal states
-cities in core area pay much higher maintenance costs (this is to encourage civs with small homelands and lots of colonies to adopt this civic rather than civs will large homelands to expand into such as China, Russia or United States from participation in the multinational union)
rigo92
Chieftain
From playing much as Spain, I believe that the biology requirement to remove jungles is too much. Not because the concept is bad per se but because it prevents many places from being settled in reasonable dates. For example, you can't settle as Spain many places in Colombia, Costa Rica, Paraguay, Bolivia, Panama, etc... because you can't remove the freaking jungles until late in the game (much later than when cities where founded there historically). Also, although you can settle the Phillipines at Dabao or San Fernando, you can't found Manila (which is the best city in the Phillipines, with its central position and access to all the resources in the Phillipines within its BFC) because of jungle, when IRL Manila was settled by the Spanish in 1574, over an existing native settlement. I understand that the point of jungles was in part to restrain the growth and expansion of the Mayas, Aztecs and Incas to unhistorical places but I think for them Astronomy is hard enough to reach too early, biology is just plain overkill. But I believe that changing the requirement to Astronomy rather than biology would be better, after all, part of the fun in the game is to allow the player as much freedom as possible. Maybe it is not even necessary to allow the player to remove jungles with astronomy, the restriction on founding cities on jungles could simply be lifted when astronomy is discovered. I hope you take this jungle suggestion into account Leoreth, as currently there are many places that get settled too late or not at all, which is simply not true historically.
Yes, good point. But the only thing I don't like about that is that my colonial cities (which are spaced far apart) end up being some of my best cities where I can spam out soldiers that make me a great military power. I don't see Australia doing that for the United Kingdom in real life. Plus this allows the probability for France, Spain, or other colonial powers to keep up with research in the 20th century as well.
If a civic can do what a UP does, that also frees up England's UP for something else more uniquely English.
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