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Dear American Liberals: It's not my fault if your history is so straight and male.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by metatron, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Nobody has any problem when Americans are seeing how things happen in the US through the US filter. Obviously.
    The problem is that they tend to see EVERYTHING through the US filter, when they speak about what happens in the rest of the world. Which is the whole problem.

    I don't think that seeing other countries as "interesting somebody-else-problems" is inherent to Americans, everybody does it.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Reputation and credibility are interesting things to experiment with.
     
  3. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

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    Oh, i think it is generally offensive in most contexts. This one is anomaly.
    For several reasons.
    For one Tim's rant in this direction is already well established in this thread and the one referenced regarding the dialect debate.
    For another, while i do have a serious point here, i'm braging tongue-in-cheek-ish-ly at the same time, implicitly asserting some sort of vague Continental superiority.
    So, in this very thread it is somewhat fair that i/we take it. "It" being the rat comparison.
    Besides there's precedence what with Villepin and Fischer at the UN.
    Oh, no: They were weasels, supposedly, not rats.

    Anyway, rats (and weasels) are actually quite cute. So there's additional mitigation.
    Just look at the wonderful tiny hands. :)

    (Just don't get them as pets, never mind that they are cute. Rats are bastards. When you die in your sleep your dog will mourn you, even your cat will, and cats - as wonderful as they may be - are pricks.
    A rat will file you as garbage and start eating your eyeballs the moment you're cold).
     
  4. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy I swear..

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    Mink are jackasses too. Good coats tho.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    I'm glad you granted me the anomaly. I think another good justification for it is that the context was pretty clear and accurately applied; societal "cures" that demonstrably work in the Netherlands are not guaranteed to scale to the US. To leap to "called us lab rats" would require ignoring that. @Manfred Belheim tends to get called out for making "similar" statements because they are frequently stretched to a great length to apply at all, so come across as forcing the "lab rat," or whatever, into play strictly for slur value.

    I think there are a lot of cases where the USian just isn't speaking about the rest of the world. To most USians the rest of the world barely even exists, much less matters enough to be spoken about.
     
  6. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Morose & Lugubrious

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    I see. So the American, when talking about any place, is really (also) talking about America. It's like in Calvino's "Invisible Cities" when Marco Polo, talking to Genghis Khan, conjures up dozens of dreamlike, fantastic cities, but they're all aspects of Venice.
     
  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Pretty much. The conversation may start off being about traffic problems in London, but it is guaranteed that if two people from LA get involved they won't be talking about London traffic for long. Everyone else in the conversation can either go along for the ride, or split off into their own conversation, or be offended if they want, but trying to confine USians against such hijacking is a dead play.

    The only way to put up more than a token resistance is to use a topic that is really alien to the USians. Like if we start talking about the military strategy complications of having a potentially hostile neighboring country that can reach every city with land based tactical aircraft without refueling USians will clearly know they can't make that about their country. Or we can talk about how to go about maintaining a national identity when the vast majority of the population lives within an hour's drive of a neighboring country that has a vast advantage in what it has to offer economically and the USians will know that isn't about them. Or we can talk about the effects on the national psyche of being recognized as a country that only comes up at the end of conversations about military interventions because no one cares whether they intervene or not since they won't make any difference...USians know Portugal when they see it and won't try to relate that to themselves.
     
    yung.carl.jung likes this.
  8. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    I see the idea and I think it is indeed correct to a certain extent, but the way you put it you seem to believe it's a good thing. Of course at first glance the things we don't know look bland and uninteresting, but that's only because we haven't taken the time to explore them in depth. You sound a bit like an arrogant prick in bluntly affirming what you don't know doesn't deserve to be known, as if that was an absolute truth to you.

    Now of course, I don't deny we can be happy in living in ignorance, but that doesn't make of knowledge something useless.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  9. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Well, yeah. I am pretty much an arrogant prick, so it's not surprising that I sound like one, especially when responding to what @metatron has acknowledged was to some extent meant to be bait in the first place.

    That said, I don't think I suggested that "bland and uninteresting" would be my description of choice. I mean, most people would probably agree that their own life demonstrates that the most fascinating things are generally the useless ones. Take France, for example. I think knowing the language is cool; even though I know hardly any at all I have fun with it. There's some good food to be had. Cool looking buildings that certainly make good models if playing SimCity or something. But as a sample to be considered when analyzing political or economic forms; meaningless to USians despite some things they have done with enviable success. The conditions are just too different to be relevant.
     
  10. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    Well if you're so satisfied about what you know, what are you doing on a discussion forum then?

    You make it sound as if we know in advance what is useful and what is not. All the spice in life comes from the fact it's just not true. ;)

    Take fundamental research for instance. Many people accross the world are financed to find out about stuff without knowing at all if exploring them would be useful or not. Albert Einstein started his work in studying German trains timetable and the difficulty to synchronize the whole network back in the end of the 19th century. It looks pretty dull told this way, but this has been the starting point of researches which eventually ended up with the theory of relativity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
    Birdjaguar likes this.
  11. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Warlord

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    I never do that actually, but carry on.
     
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    I like the company.
     
    Marla_Singer likes this.
  13. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    #8 is Bertha Benz

    I'm still working on the original set of puzzles as time permits.
     
  14. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

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    Actually you bigger problem there is not the scale but the national mythology.
    Like, they actually, literally, built their country.
    Of course you are entirely correct. :)

    And of course, this being August 1888, the "Year of the Three Emperors", there's all manner of things to be said about the nature and the fate of the Second Empire.
    But of course that's optional.
     
  15. r16

    r16 not deity

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    guys , guys , you are not supposed to be agreeing in such threads ! Otherwise a rant and immediately negated or something by the claims that appeared on Turkish TV are simply filling empty slots as they are like reporting on the initial accelaration or something .


    Spoiler :



    having nothing else to do ı dabble in conjectural engineering , you know , doing stuff . Like having an X-Wing lookalike in 1960s of an alternate universe , to serve as the outer link of defence against Russians while based on a carrier in the Black Sea . Wouldn't happen in real life , but anyhow . For the same amount of money , you could have 3 or 4 bases loaded with Phantoms and not being Blue Eyed Boys of Jesus Christ we have had no problems ever with the Sparrow . And genuinely happy that the modelling forum was like taken so aback when ı posted it that there wasn't even derision ; made it extremely easy to delete within days . That X-Wing (like after so many years) is still a source of this warm glow inside . Each year's best effort to be compared with it and 2018 peaked early with the B-Wing , ı think if it wasn't 2017 . So , during last week was wasting my life and all with the Queen's Ship from the Phantom Menace ; coastal transport submarine , because everyone needs one , straight cargo area from the throne to Padme's bed with both included , moved the control room down to droid storage . Would make more sense if it lost the wings and the engine nacelles but that ain't gonna be allowed , right ? Then it arrives ; Ouamuamua is the 2018 effort and ı will count it and be happy about it , on par with the X-Wing , can you believe that ? 10 million people on the world , you know as a minimum , know it came form outer space where no men could have sent it and it vanishes . No doubt shot down by Lockmart's F-35 but OPSEC denies acknowledgement , Americans being superior specimens of Homo Sapiens while we are baseline monkeys . Don't know what it takes so long . Especially Eastern Questionwise : "Ultimately a real understanding of history means that we face nothing new under the sun. For all the ‘Fourth Generation of War’ intellectuals running around today saying that the fundamental nature of war has fundamentally changed, the tactics are wholly new, etc., I must respectfully say: ‘Not really.’ Alexander the Great would not be in the least perplexed by the enemy we face right now in Iraq, and our leaders going into this fight do their troops a disservice by not studying (studying, vice just reading) the men who have gone before us. We have been fighting on this planet for 5,000 years and we should take advantage of their experience." 1/8 or 1/16 White Wabbit aka Mattis once said .

    so , here's the background . Bay of Biscay , B-24s and Yehudi lights of 1942 , (not Yahudi mind you) and ı have no clue on the etymology of it . You will see a plane in the sky as a darker spot on a clear day , so if you add some projectors to the wings to decrease the darkness you will get a minute closer to the U-Boot which can indeed crash dive in half a minute . Nothing ever in the scale of glorious platform alignment to regulate the radar returns , a field only Anglosaxons can achieve , mind you . So , the astronomers think they are observing a far away object that supposedly rotates around itself even , while the Russians obviously got it from Powers' U-2 in 1960 , that blackbox that gave a stronger radar return with a slight delay to make the target appear more distant ... Russians would answer the attack on Tankograd / meteor over Chelyabinsk , right ?

    am an idiot , have never issues with that . Can even handle a piece of rock ı spent 15 seconds on be preferred and ordered to be . No issues with being laughed at , but getting harder to be taken as fools on a collective basis , creating uneasiness even about what to do on the Judgement Day and the like . Indeed happy that ı can download , but people must have forgotten to clear their dirt or something . My mouse will regularly lock itself out of operation once a day , which ı solve by removing it from the USB socket and re-attaching . Would it be too hard to have it not happening in the webcafe ? American "goodwill" ? No , sir , in the very end , it's still the idea that the Turk can speak in the language everybody is finally compelled to understand , even if it might involve a couple of broken bones . Hated every single day of it as the whole town laughed at the stupid r16 trying to "find a lover" from the State Department , while the said is blissfully unaware of the implications and crediting it to stupid Middle Eastern mannerisms that they are to send some one else and thus be shown to be "recognized" . They would roll on the floors laughing if "recognized" as a phrase was reinforced with "as equals" . You know , a country that hasn't existed for 250 years yet while Ottomans lost territory in a streak lasted longer than that .


    and no doubt that they will surely wet themselves laughing if there was a long winded stupidity on how the Syrians were ready to surrender in 2011 after they were convinced that the Turk had learned his place and was on board . They were like "What?" when the glorious Kurds gave up Kerkük and no doubt are actually claiming they masterminded that as well . The Iranians for one are actually capable of remembering the language the Turk speaks -when it comes to that- and that's the reason why New Turkey is gloriously arming itself with fancy weapons , despite it was supposed to disarm the Turk by all means possible , for the camps , the gas chambers , the finalest final solution . The invitation must be retracted , because it's used as a distraction , to create more "facts on the ground" , so that more Arabs can be killed with the claim that the Turk is no more or will accept Arabization or is now outgunned by New Turkey of all people . Two persons on TV , like from opposing camps , claim New Turkey is the strongest military power . One claims in Europe , due battle experience , other says most ready for WW III . They will then readily claim that they oppose a Kurdish Nation State . Almost 500 000 people have undisputably have died to create one , in order to keep the "flighty" Kurds in the fight as the internal front , because the said invariably give up when properly confronted , as regularly seen in the last 5 centuries . New Turkey is raiding terrorist onion sellers who stock on them by keeping in depots to sell throughout the Winter instead of laying it all in one weekend ; New Turkey promises it will stop meat imports in 3 years and that's a glorious achievement only New Turkey can , as if it wasn't New Turkey that was the first ever to import meat . We consume 14 kilograms per person per year , the global average was claimed to be 80 kilograms , but possibly is only the Argentinian rate . Which was too steep -so , we instead learned an average European consumes 30 kilos a year and half of it is pork anyhow . The secretary for agriculture of the palace cabinet is a wonder of the times , predated Trump banning Acosta of CNN by banning a TV reporter who had the temerity of asking the same question twice . Goverment will purchase meat , it starts bidding in the middle of the night , so that only one company can be ready . First time , an adviser grabs the secretary by arm and bodily drags him out lest he says something wrong . Second time , the secretary claims the 165 million liras of contract was just a hundred thousands worth and nobody sinned or whatever , before calling the journalist disrespectful .

    the facts on the ground are : Before A-K-P there were 19 dentistry faculties , there are now 86(?) most of them in rural provinces so that students can provide 4 years of income to Party hacks . A million or two enters exams each year , this last saw 300 000 places left empty , because they are schools the students will rather not go . Doesn't matter when Merkel's Germany might have 3 million students in the university , while New Turkey has 8 million ; there will be hundreds of university graduates applying to become janitors ? Who cares , they contributed to the economy by years of studying to learn practically nothing ... Was talking to some person with political leanings mostly opposing ; it might be the generation gap but as a teacher would like to be challenged with "disrespect" even , but the great majority -as befits the 21st Century- are empty ... Because the American advisors want more of Turkish money , the PM calls on the university students to be men and use loans instead of applying for scholarships and the like . Despite his first son has practically cornered the market providing dormitories to students , with Goverment budget providing every cost except the provision to get the profit . Hating to be a means to be kept waiting for our demise , hating even the approved stance of calm demenour when Americans die to kill us all but can't stop gaining more of our money .

    history is cool , makes problems easier if you know where the people have failed before . We are failing , despite the historical experience that assured us that we would fail . Always an idiot , am pretty sure ı will still be called an idiot by the 15 year old girls of 2071 (if ı live that old) the year declared to be the final year of Turkish existance in Anatolia , when America was surprised by the Gezi Events and the implications . That there were possibilities of Party losing the grip at a time when Iranians could roll back the beardies and kill the Kurdish Nation State at its infancy without its local protector . Well , ı myself was an idiot when ı was 15 myself ; think that was the time ı was busy designing submarines and stuff . Even if the best was probably the helicopter turbine engined maybe a decade later ... Keep pure oxygen in tubes , just like frogmen do and feed it while submerged , though was lacking in background . What was the max pressure ? At 10 atmospheres , the whole submarine of WW II dimensions simplified to a pure cylinder held like a mere 2 hours of air at the stated mass flow per second ... Was like laughing at myself to later read that ı was not that smart and Germans had done it before . Was their second most preferred , after the Hydrogen Peroxide aka Walther boats and before the Elektroboote , the least desired and the whole starting point for all the subs after WW II . Only that they used 400 atmospheres and they didn't get much of an endurance , too ... Said ı was an idiot ? Wore old clothes as a museum guide as it was the pregorative of the management to prove they respected the handicapped by employing an idiot , what could happen and the European foundation still kept up [later] despite the indications , didn't they ? What's the point of being delayed and all that , when American ancients are unable to keep one single appointment even when they know the lights can go out very much up there with one single touch on a switch . Allah Korkusu ? That they should be given a chance ? Let's go and sink a CVN , willing to bet 5 liras that they will fail to convince that it struck uncharted rocks ...

    half measures are even worse , even with rationalizing . Putting food for street cats , have learned the kitten have the diseases of youth , that they grow together , play together and then maybe half , maybe all drop like flies . Makes it only uglier , that suspicion with no means to corroborate or do anything about it , too . To find slices of bread next to the dead kitties , now that my family certainly has learned cats are meant to eat meat and not bread , which might cut their life span to mere couple of years .
     

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