[RD] Death to the Gerrymander

[Lexicus]

Gerrymandering created some minority districts, how do you preserve them if gerrymandering is eliminated?

Spoiler :

The best solution would surely be to make the House based on proportional representation instead of districts?

 

[rah]

We actually need professional legislators.

I agree, as long as they are non partisan. The only problem is that almost all the professionals are partisan.
SO maybe it would be worth trying it with slightly less than professional. At least they would vote their own beliefs instead of what they're told. And they might even be willing to compromise. Lord knows, it couldn't be any worse than it is now.

 

[Berzerker]

Spoiler :

No he didn't, he just told me gerrymandering he supports is okay and gerrymandering he opposes isn't.

edit: the thread is about ending gerrymandering, not Republican gerrymandering.

 

[Lexicus]

I agree, as long as they are non partisan. The only problem is that almost all the professionals are partisan.
SO maybe it would be worth trying it with slightly less than professional. At least they would vote their own beliefs instead of what they're told. And they might even be willing to compromise. Lord knows, it couldn't be any worse than it is now.

I don't understand, how can you say you want people to "vote their own beliefs" but also want them not to be partisan?

 

[metalhead]

he just told me gerrymandering he supports is okay and gerrymandering he opposes isn't.

No, I didn't.

*cue wall of quotes and verbatim repeat of previous Berz points*

 

[Zkribbler]

Spoiler :

The best solution would surely be to make the House based on proportional representation instead of districts?

Wouldn't that result in every state south of the Mason-Dixon line having congressmen who are all white?

 

[Lexicus]

Wouldn't that result in every state south of the Mason-Dixon line having congressmen who are all white?

Why would it?

 

[Berzerker]

No, I didn't.

*cue wall of quotes and verbatim repeat of previous Berz points*

Would you complain about gerrymandering if the Dems controlled the state legislatures? Wont a Trump win reduce GOP control of state legislatures? Most minorities in Congress are Dems, why would racial gerrymandering be non-'partisan'?

You don't know anything, obviously, because you don't seem to understand that there are different reasons for gerrymandering, and you can end one kind (partisan) without necessarily ending gerrymandering altogether.

Sounds like you dont oppose all gerrymandering, just the kind ("partisan") you dont like.

 

[Zkribbler]

Why would it?

The majority of folks in Dixie are White. Whites in Dixie tend to vote for Whites. If voting is at-large, Wasps would swamp minorities.

 

[Berzerker]

whites are the majority in virtually all the states

 

[Lexicus]

The majority of folks in Dixie are White. Whites in Dixie tend to vote for Whites. If voting is at-large, Wasps would swamp minorities.

A proportional representation-based House would have its composition determined by a national election, similar to the popular vote for the Presidency.

 

[Zkribbler]

Example: Of our 100 U.S. Senators [elected at-large]:
3 are African-American
3 are Asian-Americans
4 are Hispanics
90 are White-Americans.

Edit: Whites make up 61% of the US population.

 

[Lexicus]

They are elected at-large in statewide elections.

 

[Zkribbler]

A proportional representation-based House would have its composition determined by a national election, similar to the popular vote for the Presidency.

So my representative would no longer represent me but would represent the entire nation? What a fantastically terrible idea!

And to run a nationwide campaign, my rep would either need to be fabulously wealthy or would have to sell out to plutocrats. No, I don't like this idea.

 

[Lexicus]

So my representative would no longer represent me but would represent the entire nation? What a fantastically terrible idea!

And to run a nationwide campaign, my rep would either need to be fabulously wealthy or would have to sell out to plutocrats. No, I don't like this idea.

You'd vote for the party, and the party would choose the reps. That's how they do it in parliamentary systems. I get that people really don't like the idea of not having a local representative tied to your district, but I never felt like my representatives were "mine" when the districts have tens of thousands of people, so I don't care about that argument. I do recognize that the US will probably never adopt a proportional representation system.

The whole problem with gerrymandering is that the concept of the "district" becomes distorted. The idea of having localities represented by one person in Congress is good but I just don't think it really works anymore. Certainly a good idea would be to have a nonpartisan commission, rather than the elected officials who nominally represent the districts, responsible for drawing them.

Also, I mean, come on, if we're imagining such a sweeping impossible change to the system as the House going proportional representation instead of district-based, we have to also imagine that campaign finance reform took place

 

[Zkribbler]

Certainly a good idea would be to have a nonpartisan commission, rather than the elected officials who nominally represent the districts, responsible for drawing them.

Welcome to the great state of California the least gerrymandered state in the nation!

In 2008, California voters approved Proposition 11 — the Voters First Act. The act established an independent commission to construct new district boundaries for the state legislature and State Board of Equalization. Voters there acted again in 2010 to approve the Voters First Act for Congress (Proposition 20), giving the commission further responsibility to redraw congressional district boundaries. Though not the first state to employ such a measure, California is the largest state to empower its citizens this way.

The commission consists of 14 members — 5 Democrats, 5 Republicans, and 4 members not affiliated with either political party. In drawing the districts, the commission must follow a commonly imposed hierarchy of guidelines: equal population among districts; adherence to the Voting Rights Act; geographic contiguity, geographic integrity of city, county, and local neighborhood boundaries, as well as communities of interest; and geographic compactness. In addition to these guidelines, there are also prohibitions against consideration of an incumbent’s or candidate’s place of residence or partisanship in drawing the districts.

 

[Lexicus]

Those seem like good rules to me.

 

[Ajidica]

You'd vote for the party, and the party would choose the reps. That's how they do it in parliamentary systems. I get that people really don't like the idea of not having a local representative tied to your district, but I never felt like my representatives were "mine" when the districts have tens of thousands of people, so I don't care about that argument. I do recognize that the US will probably never adopt a proportional representation system.

How many parliamentary systems lack local representatives though? I'm most familiar with the UK system and they definitely have local representatives*. Given all of Valka's complaining about her local MP, Canada has a similar set up and I'm 99% sure the Australian lower house does to; and some silliness in their Senate. I'm generally sympathetic to a parliamentary system but I think doing away with local reps would be a step too far.

*Which lead to some hilarious interviews where a Green supporter says they voted for the UKIP member because they were a good constituency MP.

 

[metalhead]

Sounds like you dont oppose all gerrymandering, just the kind ("partisan") you dont like.

Where in that quote does it say I support or oppose anything?

 

[Lexicus]

How many parliamentary systems lack local representatives though?

As far as I know, any system with proportional representation doesn't have representatives tied to a locality or district. The UK doesn't have proportional representation.

Wikipedia has a list of the different arrangements used:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation#PR_electoral_systems

This is what I was referring to:
Party list PR
Main article: Party-list proportional representation
Party list proportional representation is an electoral system in which seats are first allocated to parties based on vote share, and then assigned to party-affiliated candidates on the parties' electoral lists. This system is used in many countries, including Finland (open list), Latvia (open list), Sweden (open list), Israel (national closed list), Brazil (open list), Nepal (Closed list) adopted in 2008 in first CA election, the Netherlands (open list), Russia (closed list), South Africa (closed list), Democratic Republic of the Congo (open list), and Ukraine(open list). For elections to the European Parliament, most member states use open lists; but most large EU countries use closed lists, so that the majority of EP seats are distributed by those.[45] Local lists were used to elect the Italian Senate during the second half of the 20th century.