Did you know open carry is legal in Penn.?

[Elrohir]

Hey, I understand (mostly!).

Is it legal to have the gun drawn?

From what I can tell, only in a situation where firing it would be permissible. I mean, you aren't going to get in trouble for showing your gun to someone outiside a firing range, if he wants to look at it - but walking around with it in your hand is a recipe for trouble. Waving it around when there's no threat (Or you aren't at a range - in which case, you'd probably just get kicked out) would probably get you charged with a couple felonies. Wearing it into a diner is OK, pointing it at people isn't.

 

[lutzj]

Not particularly. Plenty of pro-gun types were ok with Bush's warrantless wiretaps.

(they don't have phones...)

 

[.Shane.]

Ah poop, lost my whole post...

Short version... if the story presented is essentially true, yeah, its a travesty and a joke. The joke comes more from the fact that cops are part-timers. So I can see how they might be more inclined to over-react or not understand the law as well as others (NOTE: That doesn't excuse it, but it may help explain their actions)

So, just for my edification:
*It is legal for people to openly carry guns in PA?
*What are the restrictions? IE no felons, handguns only, etc....?

One thing that most people don't get is that the 2A is not incorporated. This is why you have such a wide-range of laws that regulate guns at the city, county, and state level. I'm very curious to see how willing the SCOTUS is to take this on or if they'll dodge it on the DC Handguns case...

I'd be more outraged, but, hey, welcome to the Terrorfied States of America. We now live in what is more and more becoming a security/surveillance society.

 

[illram]

Regardless of the legality, if you know carrying guns in public--openly--is going to make certain people uncomfortable, maybe you should put it in your purse or your jacket or something?

Maybe you don't need to bring your handgun to dinner with little Timmy the 6 year old at all?

I'm one of those wacky liberals that thinks people should be able to own and carry guns, but I also find it a little odd that some people feel compelled to carry their guns--openly--to a family dinner out? And then cry a freakin river when it causes a ruckus... what were you expecting?

If you were these people and I came up to you and asked you to kindly put your weapons away because it was scaring my kids, what would you say? I am genuinely curious. That's probably what I would have done had the situation arose rather than calling the cops.

 

[skadistic]

Regardless of the legality, if you know carrying guns in public--openly--is going to make certain people uncomfortable, maybe you should put it in your purse or your jacket or something?Then it would be concealed and with out a permit a felony. Maybe people should get over irrational fears that every one with a gun is going to kill them.

Maybe you don't need to bring your handgun to dinner with little Timmy the 6 year old at all?Maybe you do. Maybe you have a right to and feel that excising that right is harmless.

I'm one of those wacky liberals that thinks people should be able to own and carry guns, but I also find it a little odd that some people feel compelled to carry their guns--openly--to a family dinner out?So? What if it is open? Who does that hurt? And then cry a freakin river when it causes a ruckus... what were you expecting?People to act like grown ups and not over react at the sight of the gun in holster thats not threatening anyone. The only crime here was what the cops did. Or are you saying people shouldn't complain when cops break the law and trample rights?

If you were these people and I came up to you and asked you to kindly put your weapons away because it was scaring my kids, what would you say?I say I couldn't because concealing it with out a permit is a felony. Then I'd explain to you that I have every right to openly carry it secured in a holster and if you don't like then you have issues you need to get over. And that maybe you should explain to your kid about rights and how not every one with a gun is a bad man. At that time maybe you can ween him off the constantly growing irrational fear of fire arms. I am genuinely curious. That's probably what I would have done had the situation arose rather than calling the cops.

And would you have done when told to blow out your back side? That I have every right to openly carry? Even the restaurant manager had no problems with it. They had no problems at all until the over reacting cops showed up because some one over reacted.

 

[illram]

And would you have done when told to blow out your back side? That I have every right to openly carry? Even the restaurant manager had no problems with it. They had no problems at all until the over reacting cops showed up because some one over reacted.

Why bring it to dinner? Because you can? Or are you that fearful for your safety?

Your reaction seems to characterize the mentality that you carry because you can, and because you want people to recognize you and your gun and your "rights," which is some sort of weird psychological thing I don't get. It's like you actively search out confrontation over this stuff. It's silly.

In my hypothetical I'm asking you to do me a favor, and you're telling me to blow it out my a$$, which kind of confirms that you're just kind of a, well, a-hole. Probably the last person I would feel comfortable carrying a gun, ironically.

 

[skadistic]

Why bring it to dinner? Why bring it anywhere? Why not bring it to the diner?Because you can? Because you can bring it almost anywhere. Or are you that fearful for your safety?No fear about it. Just because people are armed for protection doesn't mean they fear. Theya re simply prepaired.

Your reaction seems to characterize the mentality that you carry because you can, and because you want people to recognize you and your gun and your "rights," which is some sort of weird psychological thing I don't get. It's like you actively search out confrontation over this stuff. It's silly. Seem? But is it? And I agree people crying about gun owners is silly.

In my hypothetical I'm asking you to do me a favor,So am I. I'm asking you the favour of leaving me and my rights alone while eat. and you're telling me to blow it out my a$$, which kind of confirms that you're just kind of a, well, a-hole.No the ass-hole is the person who disrupted my eating to whine about something thats really not troubling any one. If you don't want people telling to blow it maybe you should just let them be in peace like they let you be. Probably the last person I would feel comfortable carrying a gun, ironically.

Why? Did I threaten you? Did I even draw my gun? No it that situation I simply told an inconsiderate person who felt a need to interrupt me for no good reason to piss off.

 

[JohnRM]

Hey, I understand (mostly!).

Is it legal to have the gun drawn?

Yes, but if you're pointing it at someone you may be charged with a crime if you didn't have a good reason for it.

 

[JohnRM]

Ah poop, lost my whole post...

Short version... if the story presented is essentially true, yeah, its a travesty and a joke. The joke comes more from the fact that cops are part-timers. So I can see how they might be more inclined to over-react or not understand the law as well as others (NOTE: That doesn't excuse it, but it may help explain their actions)

In their defense, the laws of this country and state or so complex that it is only a matter of time for any officer before he gets something wrong. Nobody, at least in my two-county area open carries. It just isn't common to see it. The problem arises when they don't admit the mistake and try to brush it off.

So, just for my edification:
*It is legal for people to openly carry guns in PA?
*What are the restrictions? IE no felons, handguns only, etc....?

Yes, open carry is legal in the State of Pennsylvania.
Convicted felons, the mentally unstable, those with restraining orders or other court injunctions, and minors are not permitted to open carry. You are not allowed to carry in courthouses or on public school campuses.

One thing that most people don't get is that the 2A is not incorporated. This is why you have such a wide-range of laws that regulate guns at the city, county, and state level. I'm very curious to see how willing the SCOTUS is to take this on or if they'll dodge it on the DC Handguns case...

In the State of Pennsylvania, the right to bear arms is a constitution right (see; Pennsylvania Constitution) and thus local governments are prohibited from preempting state law. The City of Philadelphia has attempted to do so on plenty of occasions, but has thus far been unsuccessful.

I'd be more outraged, but, hey, welcome to the Terrorfied States of America. We now live in what is more and more becoming a security/surveillance society.

I don't think most gun-owners are terrified. A large part of the reason why is that they are prepared for adversity.

 

[JohnRM]

Regardless of the legality, if you know carrying guns in public--openly--is going to make certain people uncomfortable, maybe you should put it in your purse or your jacket or something?

Unlike open carry, concealed carry is against the law unless otherwise permitted by the state to do so. The permit must be obtained by the local Sheriff or metropolitan equivalent, costs 19 dollars and expires after five years. Pennsylvania is a "shall-issue" state, meaning that if you're lawfully able to own a handgun, the state must give you a concealed carry permit.

Maybe you don't need to bring your handgun to dinner with little Timmy the 6 year old at all?

Maybe I don't need to take it to the mall.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting

Maybe I don't need to take it to campus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

Maybe I don't need to take it to a restaurant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Desserts_shooting


Then again, maybe I do. Better to have one and not need it than need it and not have one.

I'm one of those wacky liberals that thinks people should be able to own and carry guns, but I also find it a little odd that some people feel compelled to carry their guns--openly--to a family dinner out? And then cry a freakin river when it causes a ruckus... what were you expecting?

I sympathize with what you're saying, but until people are allowed to carry concealed weapons without and guff from the government about it, then people are going to exercise those few legal options they have left to protect themselves. The operators of the restaurant did not feel particularly worried about it. It was other patrons that became worried. They had the option to notify the operators of the business and to leave.

If you were these people and I came up to you and asked you to kindly put your weapons away because it was scaring my kids, what would you say? I am genuinely curious. That's probably what I would have done had the situation arose rather than calling the cops.

At the moment, I'd say, "Sorry, but it against the law to conceal a weapon in Pennsylvania without a concealed carry permit. I don't have one. If I 'put the weapon away', then I'd be breaking the law. But, if you feel that strongly about it, I'll give you the URL to a website where you can write your congressmen and other state leaders to allow the carrying of concealed weapons without going through the arduous task of obtaining a permit."

If I had a permit (and soon I will), I'd already have the weapon concealed.

 

[illram]

If I 'put the weapon away', then I'd be breaking the law. But, if you feel that strongly about it, I'll give you the URL to a website where you can write your congressmen and other state leaders to allow the carrying of concealed weapons without going through the arduous task of obtaining a permit."

If I had a permit (and soon I will), I'd already have the weapon concealed.

That's perfectly reasonable. I did not think about the concealed carry law.

Nonetheless I disagree with the necessity of bringing it out to dinner--openly-- and I think if one wants to carry in public they should get the concealed permit. Maybe you are right, and we should strive to make that an easier hoop to jump through? What you propose seems to be the right balance between exercising your rights while respecting others. It also might help to solve problems with cops such as the one brought up in the article.

 

[illram]

Why? Did I threaten you? Did I even draw my gun? No it that situation I simply told an inconsiderate person who felt a need to interrupt me for no good reason to piss off.

In my hypothetical scenario, you respond to respect with disrespect. You are precisely the kind of person I wouldn't want carrying around a loaded firearm.

 

[skadistic]

In my hypothetical scenario, you respond to respect with disrespect. That only confirms the kind of person you are and you are precisely the kind of person I wouldn't want carrying around a loaded firearm.

Actually I didn't you should read it again.......

Now on to your incorrect assumptions and jumping to misguided conclusions only reflect poorly on you. Maybe if you weren't rude and inconsiderate to a point where you would interrupt a mans dinner over something that is a non-issue you might not get an equal response. But of course any one with a gun should be supper nice to rude people who violate their private space and cry about they being law abiding citizens. Now what kind of person would I be exactly? Did I pull the gun out and tell you to go away? No. Did I threaten you in any way? Did I keep my calm and tell some one who had no reason to disturb me to go away and mind his own business? Yes. Now if you think level headed people who made no threats and showed no sign that you were in any danger at all for being rude and disrespectful is who you wouldn't want carrying a loaded weapon then I guess you don't want any one carrying a loaded weapon.


But you keep attempting to paint the person who didn't act in a rude manner as the bad guy. Keep making look like the guy who was just sitting there doing nothing wrong and eating peace as the evil man. Don't in any way admit it would have been you in the wrong. You who acted inappropriately. You who were making a big drama about things. You who bothered people that weren't bothering you.

 

[skadistic]

That's perfectly reasonable. I did not think about the concealed carry law.

Nonetheless I disagree with the necessity of bringing it out to dinner--openly-- and I think if one wants to carry in public they should get the concealed permit. Maybe you are right, and we should strive to make that an easier hoop to jump through? What you propose seems to be the right balance between exercising your rights while respecting others. It also might help to solve problems with cops such as the one brought up in the article.

Why should we make hoops easier to jump through? We shouldn't have hoops to begin with. Having an open carry fire arm disrespects no one. What problem were there to solve? None. The cops caused the problem and some who didn't have any respect for a man eating food and bothering no one.

 

[illram]

blah blah blah

The fact is, some people do feel uncomfortable around strangers carrying guns in family settings when there are kids around. Sorry that's just the way it is. If you find that unreasonable, fine, there are better ways to deal with apparently annoying people like me than telling us to blow it out our a$$. John HSOG's response, for example.

 

[Elrohir]

The fact is, some people do feel uncomfortable around strangers carrying guns in family settings when there are kids around. Sorry that's just the way it is. If you find that unreasonable, fine, there are better ways to deal with apparently annoying people like me than telling us to blow it out our a$$. John HSOG's response, for example.

A private business owner could probably ask them to leave his property, and that'd be legal. But I don't see why another private citizen has the right to dictate how others act, so long as the person carrying the weapon isn't threatening others or committing some other crime.

 

[illram]

A private business owner could probably ask them to leave his property, and that'd be legal. But I don't see why another private citizen has the right to dictate how others act, so long as the person carrying the weapon isn't threatening others or committing some other crime.

I am not dictating anything. I am asking someone to do something for me. How they respond is up to them. You have the right to carry your gun and I have the right to ask you to put it away or not make it so obvious. And you have the right to tell me to blow it out my a$$ and I have the right to think you're an a-hole for responding that way, and so on and so forth. That's why America is awesome.

 

[Elrohir]

I am not dictating anything. I am asking someone to do something for me. How they respond is up to them. You have the right to carry your gun and I have the right to ask you to put it away or not make it so obvious. And you have the right to tell me to blow it out my a$$ and I have the right to think you're an a-hole for responding that way, and so on and so forth. That's why America is awesome.

Except, hiding your firearm on your person without a concealed carry permit is a crime. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[illram]

Except, hiding your firearm on your person without a concealed carry permit is a crime. Why is this so hard to understand?

Dude, I get it, I got it the first time. Put it on the inside of the booth or something. Or get a concealed carry permit if you are so hell bent on walking around with it.

Thinking no one should care, or assuming there is no problem with walking around with a loaded gun in a public family setting like a family dinner restaurant is naive at best. I am convinced people do this sort of crap precisely so they can cry "injustice!" when they are inevitably confronted about it.

 

[skadistic]

The fact is, some people do feel uncomfortable around strangers carrying guns in family settings when there are kids around.So? Its still not disrespectful. Sorry that's just the way it is.Yes irrational fear is sorry. If you find that unreasonable, fine, there are better ways to deal with apparently annoying people like me than telling us to blow it out our a$$. Well if you don't want people to tell you to go away don't bother them.John HSOG's response, for example.

Blah blah blah?

Given you are just being childish in the face of being shown how ridiculous you are. I will quote what my actual response would have been. Given your selective reading and juvenile antics you can't be relied to understand on your own.

Here is your question.

If you were these people and I came up to you and asked you to kindly put your weapons away because it was scaring my kids, what would you say?

And here was the actual answer I gave that you either failed to read or understand or more likely read and ignored so you could make me look like the bad guy.

I say I couldn't because concealing it with out a permit is a felony. Then I'd explain to you that I have every right to openly carry it secured in a holster and if you don't like then you have issues you need to get over. And that maybe you should explain to your kid about rights and how not every one with a gun is a bad man. At that time maybe you can ween him off the constantly growing irrational fear of fire arms.

Blah blah blah?